Return to David's theory of evolution, theodicy and purposes (Evolution)

by David Turell , Wednesday, November 27, 2024, 17:48 (5 hours, 2 minutes ago) @ dhw

Theodicy

DAVID: [My God] created a universe, invented life and evolved us. No small achievement if not perfect.

dhw: The problem of theodicy has nothing whatsoever to do with your God’s achievements (if he exists), but is concerned solely with the question of how or why an all-good God has created evil. One of your answers is to ignore the problem, and another is to ignore my answers when you object to my alternative theories [..] . But your last comment suggests that you yourself are beginning to have reservations about your preconceptions. Your God is “not perfect”. Please tell us more.

DAVID: Obviously, evil persons and bad bugs are side effects of God's good works.

dhw: “Obviously” if he is omniscient and omnipotent, he would have known he was creating evil and would have prevented it if he had wanted to. […] We know from your theory of evolution that you think he is inefficient, so when you say “if not perfect”, does this mean evil is also the result of his inefficiency?

DAVID: Without God's good works we would not be here. I'm content with that and accepting the necessary side effects.

dhw: I love life as much as you do, and accept it as it is, but our “contentment” is totally irrelevant to the problems posed by theodicy. Do you think evil is the result of your God’s inefficiency?

No. Evil is a side effect of God's good works. We have free will but it allows evil people.

Immunity system complexity: Battling pseudomonas

dhw: I have transferred this from “More Miscelllany” as it is directly relevant to our discussions on this thread.

DAVID: Pseudomonas is a tough nasty bug. […] Of course dhw will point out God allowed this to exist. I don't know why, but here we see humans taking up the battle because we have the God-given mental capacity for it.

dhw: This sort of dilemma underlies three major issues that we’ve been discussing. 1) Theodicy: Why would an all-good, all-powerful, all-knowing God either design or allow this form of evil? 2) Does it not fit in with the concept of evolution as a free-for-all rather than a process carefully directed towards the design of a single species (us) plus its food?

DAVID: We are so unusual we must be purposely deigned by God, Adler's proof of God. It is a powerful argument you ignore.

dhw: All of life is so unusual that it provides a powerful argument for God’s existence. These posts are a discussion of your God’s possible purposes, methods and nature and not about his existence. Stop dodging.

No dodge. We were God's purpose! I simply inverted Adler.

DAVID: A free-for-all, by definition has no direction or purpose. […]

dhw: An atheist, of course, would argue that life has no purpose anyway, apart from whatever purposes we make for ourselves. However, a possible direction and purpose of a God-made evolutionary free-for-all would be to provide him with the enjoyment (purpose) of an ever-changing, unpredictable history, for good or bad. If he gave humans free will (a different kind of free-for-all), his purpose could have been for us to recognize and worship him (puppet-string worship would be meaningless.). Both possibilities allow for a free-for-all with very clear purposes. You have agreed that such “humanizations” are possible and do not mean that your God is a two-legged mammal.

As usual you scurry back to a humanized God who must have enjoyment and a purposeless free-for-all.

dhw: 3) Does it not completely shatter your theory that your omnipotent, omniscient God dabbles or has provided “full instructions to handle all issues”? Quite clearly he has failed miserably, according to your theory, and we humans are left to try and relieve the suffering your God has inflicted on us. However, if you embrace the theory that he gave cells the autonomous mechanism to work out their own solutions (i.e. intelligence), we have a full explanation of the medical successes and failures, and also of the process of extinction, adaptation and innovation. The autonomous intelligence is just as varied among micro-organisms as it is among macro-organisms. Some cells can solve the problems, and some can’t. (David's bold)

DAVID: No evidence for the bolded statement. It all can be explained by DNA instructions.

dhw: But many of your God’s “instructions” have failed, leaving us humans to clear up the mess. Is this further evidence of what you call your God’s inefficiency?

No. The presence of bacteria is a required part of life that God designed. That God created life is amazing within itself. Failures are a tiny portion compared to the overall successes.