Return to David's theory of evolution PARTS ONE & TWO (Evolution)

by dhw, Monday, April 03, 2023, 08:57 (598 days ago) @ David Turell

I shan’t repeat my earlier comments, as David’s latest entries call for exactly the same responses as before.

DAVID: Either way your process God has no idea where He is going.

In my first alternative theory he is “going” towards creating a being with thought patterns and emotions like his own – as in your own theory. But instead of incomprehensibly having to create 99 out of 100 irrelevant species in what you call an inefficient, cumbersome, messy process, he experiments successfully with different forms of life until he finds the best formula. In my other two theories he embarks on a voyage of discovery, learning as the process unfolds. That is part of what you call his “enjoyment” of creation, and it fosters what you call his “interest in watching” his creations or the creations of his initial invention. And in all three he knows precisely what he is doing and why he is doing it.

DAVID: He can precisely produce a universe fine-tuned-for life, create early life which has highly complex biochemistry and then suddenly is muddled as to how to go forward?

No muddle, as above. Only your theory is a muddle. As regards the universe, on Saturday you quoted Siegel: “We don’t know if our Universe is finite or infinite in extent; we only know that its physical size must be greater than the portion we can observe. We don’t know whether our Universe encompasses all that exists.” Nor do we know, then, that the whole universe is fine-tuned for life. I keep asking why you think your God had to design billions of galaxies in order to produce ours. Your answer is the same as when I ask you why he would have to create 99 irrelevant species out of 100: you have no idea. Only God knows.

DAVID: As usual you have imagined a highly humanized high inconsistent God. My God knows exactly where He is going and how to do it.

Your God apparently knows that in order to design the only species he wants to design, he must “FOR UNKNOWN REASONS” design 99 species out 100 that have nothing to do with the only species he wants to design. There is nothing inconsistent in any of my alternatives – he knows what he wants to do and does it. I have answered your “humanizing” complaint over and over again, the last time being yesterday: “You also dismiss alternative theistic theories (which you admit fit in with the history of life) because although you believe your God has thought patterns and emotions like ours, you don’t think he has thought patterns and emotions like ours (except for some, like enjoyment and interest, but you’d rather forget those).”

DAVID: […] I believe God created our reality. Currently you are operating with the same assumption. Evolution happened. Therefore, God chose it to happen with a 0.1% survival rate.

As our discussion concerns a possible God’s nature, purposes and methods, our starting point has to be that he exists. As usual, you select those aspects of your theories that we agree on, and leave out the illogicalities: your God sets out wanting to design H. sapiens (plus food), but forces himself to design 99 out of 100 species that are irrelevant to his purpose and has to ensure that they will not survive by specially designing them with “limited adaptability”. So why did he bother to design them in the first place? Your answer: “for unknown reasons”, and your theories “make sense only to God”. i.e. not even to you.

DAVID: God did not kill them off. Bad luck did, per Raup.

dhw: If your all-knowing God deliberately designed them with limited adaptability, then he obviously knew his design would result in their non-survival! That's why you wrote that he is responsible for the mess. And it was their bad luck that your God deliberately designed them so that they would go extinct.

I’ve left this in, as you gave no answer. You then yet again tried to hide behind Adler, with this new irrelevant reference:

DAVID: Adler's point was Darwin-style evolutionary theory does not explain the arrival of humans. God had to do it.

Our subject is not Adler’s attempt to prove God’s existence through us humans, but your illogical theories as outlined above. In addition to these, his powers of design were always limited by current conditions over which he had no control (hence the irrelevance of the 99%) – until he did decide to control them (Cambrian) and designed our ancestors from scratch, so he needn’t have bothered with all the life forms before the Cambrian (or with the irrelevant forms that followed). No wonder you condemn his method as being inefficient, cumbersome and messy. Please stop using Adler as a diversion from your illogical theories.