Return to David's theory of evolution (Evolution)

by David Turell , Friday, January 13, 2023, 18:53 (462 days ago) @ dhw

DAVID: The process of evolution is messy, but it succeeded in producing humans under God's guidance. It happened from God's own choice of method. Why would God choice a method He couldn't handle easily?

dhw: An excellent question. It suggests that if God exists, either he did NOT start out with the goal you impose on him, or if he did, he had to experiment – make “mistakes”, design “failures” – in order to achieve his goal. You have chosen the latter theory, and have thereby made him “weak” and “bumbling”, though you don’t seem to have realized it.

DAVID: Your 'weak and bumbling' is your messy interpretation of the facts. All/any evolution, by definition is messy with dead ends and extinctions. An all-powerful God created a universe and thinking life (us), but in your view, He had no idea what He was doing. Irrational thinking to put it politely.

dhw: It is YOUR messy interpretation of the facts! It’s YOUR all-powerful God who invented the process of evolution, which led to what you call his “mistakes” and “failed experiments” in his attempts to fulfil what YOU say was his one and only purpose!

Yes, God chose to use a messy system.

DAVID: I have presented a clear theory of how God used a messy process of evolution to create us, a God that was in total control of what had to be controlled, new DNA designs in new species.

dhw: In your clear theory, he could not control the conditions necessary to fulfil his one and only purpose, and 99% of the new species were “mistakes” or “failed experiments”. Why do you keep leaving out your own explanation of the “mess”?

DAVID: Simply steps along the way to humans. God chose His method and handled it well. Any evolution is messy in the asepct of lost species along the way.

dhw: According to you, 99% of his experiments were NOT steps on the way to us and our food. Hence the mess. What other evolutions of species are you referring to? If God is the all-powerful creator of life, then according to you he designed a method full of mistakes. What are you arguing about?

I'm trying to make you see an all-powerful God can act any way He wishes, and His powers of design overcomes all obstacles that might appear from any system He does not tightly control.

DAVID: The discussion will continue as I answer your distortions of my theory.

dhw: I am not denying our arrival! I am merely repeating your own theory: (a)your God had one goal (us and our food); (b) he specially designed countless life forms in response to changing environments which were not under his control; (c) 99% of the life forms he designed were “mistakes” or “failed experiments” because they did not lead to us and our food; (d) evolution as you present it is a mess, for which your God is responsible. Please tell me what I have distorted.

DAVID: Nothing. Now don't add God was a bumbling fool to do it that way. His way was controlled evolution of more and more complexity until our brain arrived. Nothing but a powerful designer could create our brain!!!

dhw: Thank you for admitting that I have distorted nothing. It is your theory that turns him into a bumbler. The argument that the complexities of life are evidence of design has nothing whatsoever to do with your theory that your all-powerful God had only one purpose and invented a method which caused him to make countless mistakes and conduct countless failed experiments. Alternative theories which fit in with all the comings and goings are (a) that he enjoyed creating different life forms, and had new ideas as he went along, or (b) that he invented a free-for-all. Neither of these theistic theories has him making any mistakes or conducting any failed experiments, but do by all means stick to your bumbler theory. Only don’t blame me for your beliefs.

Denigrate the God I envision all you wish. For me it shows how rigid your underlying agnostic prejudices about God skew your analysis. AS usual you bring up your humanistic God as an alternative. My God knows exactly what He is doing and does it.