Return to David's theory of evolution PARTS 1 & 2 (Evolution)

by David Turell , Thursday, January 13, 2022, 16:00 (1043 days ago) @ dhw

DAVID: Speciation itself is our debate. I choose God designing.

dhw: Even if your God does the designing, you have agreed that he does not design new species in advance of changing conditions. The oxygen must already be present for him to produce the new species which requires the oxygen.

God changes the conditions. He is in control of all steps in evolution.

DAVID: Designing complexity requires deep mentation, which your cells cannot possibly do. They can create tiny modifications, no more.

dhw: Back to your prejudice as a way of dodging the issue we are debating, which is your theory that your God creates new species IN ANTICIPATION of changing conditions, although you have now agreed that the changes in conditions must precede the new species.

forgetting God manages everything, climate and speciation

dhw: I’d like to follow up on this astonishing idea. I have proposed that the mechanism that makes new changes when new conditions require or allow them is the flexible, intelligent cell. I don’t think you will disagree that every change requires changes to the cells of every individual organism that makes up the new species.

DAVID: Some cells are changed, some new parts with news cells are created, but most use biochemical processes developed long ago in advance.

dhw: Agreed. If cells are intelligent, they would have been using the same methods right from the start: working out what to do with themselves under changing conditions.

Now it is "if cells are intelligent". Big IF.

You continue to try and prove that your God changes organisms in advance of new requirements by flogging your example of the brain:

DAVID: Yes, our giant brain didn't change much (stasis) until we learned to use it. It obviously appeared in anticipation of future use.

dhw: We didn’t “learn to use it”. We used it, just as our ancestors did. And when they came up with new ideas, their brains expanded. When we came up with new ideas, our brains complexified, as they continue to do even today.

'Learning to use it" involves developing new concepts like maths, language, etc., none of which existed 315,000 years ago with the first sapiens.

DAVID: No new brain required as we civilized and developed libraries of knowledge to stuff into it by complexifing with a pre-prepared mechanism to help.

Agreed. The “pre-prepared” mechanism was that of complexification, which – we agree – was also present in the brains of our ancestors, as was the mechanism enabling expansion. Since you clearly do not believe that your God keeps popping in to create every new complexification, may I suggest that you believe he created the mechanism for expansion and complexification way back at the very beginning, since the very first cells must have contained the mechanism which eventually led to the expansion and complexification of life forms as evolution developed. I need hardly tell you that the mechanism might be the flexibility and intelligence of the cell.

You are back to proposing God made cells so intelligent, He could sit back and let them do the work of future designs to handle future conditions.

dhw: What I deny is your theory that your God only wanted to design humans plus our food, and therefore designed 3.X billion years’ worth of life forms and foods, the majority of which had no connection with humans. THAT is what is illogical, you admit it, can’t explain it, and so you continue to edit out all the parts of your theory that make it illogical!

DAVID: Your bolds are constantly illogical.

dhw: Of course they are. It is totally illogical for an all-powerful God with one purpose (humans plus food) to deliberately create countless life forms and foods that had no connection with his one purpose. That is why you constantly dodge the issue.

My dodge is I do not accept any of your illogical premise that my God is tunnel-visioned. God recognized all the many necessary steps in evolution to reach humans, and did them. Adler would be as puzzled as I am.