Return to David's theory of evolution PARTS ONE & TWO (Evolution)

by dhw, Monday, May 15, 2023, 11:49 (340 days ago) @ David Turell

DAVID: […] There is a huge difference between a cumbersome method and a cumbersome designer God is a brilliant designer who chose to use a cumbersome method of creation. Surely you can see the difference in interpretation.

dhw: If your God is the all-powerful, all-knowing first cause, he DESIGNED the method. If a designer designs and uses a messy, cumbersome and inefficient method, I suspect most people who speak English would agree that he must be a messy, cumbersome and inefficient designer.

DAVID:I stand by my statement above. You totally miss the nuance of it due to your innate biases.

What nuance? What bias? According to you, your God was “first cause”. He was not confronted by an existing choice of methods. He designed his method! And someone who designs a messy, cumbersome, inefficient method can only be a messy, cumbersome, inefficient designer. Please stop blaming me for your criticism of your God.

dhw: […] all three of my theories present a God with a “basic direction” which explains the history of life’s vast variety, as we know it: 1) He experiments in order to create a being with thought patterns and emotions like his own (plus food); 2) he experiments, learning, coming up with and enjoying new ideas as he goes along; 3) he gives his invention free rein (autonomy) in order to enjoy all the wonders it creates, although he can intervene if he feels like it. You may disapprove of such basic directions – although you are certain that your God enjoys creating and is interested in his creations – but please stop pretending that these basic directions are not basic directions.

DAVID: Once again we are exposed to a directionless God of your imagination.

I have just listed his basic directions.

DAVID: Using comparisons of how each of us views God's thoughts and emotions does not smooth over the difference of my God who is powerful, purposeful, direct in creating exactly what He wants. Stick with your wimp if you wish.

My versions of a possible God are that he is all-powerful and purposeful, and he creates what he wants. Your God only wants to design us and our food, and therefore he designs 99 out of 100 species that have no connection with that he wants to design, and you call this direct. You regard his method as messy, cumbersome and inefficient, which apparently means it is brilliant. You turn language and logic on their head.

DAVID: I don't have your problem of requiring exactitudes. Life doesn't really offer them at the theological level of thought. If it makes sense to God, as you note, it is OK with me to accept God's illogical method of evolution.

I don’t require “exactitudes”, but at any level of thought, I do require arguments that make sense. I do not note that your arguments make sense to God: I note that YOU think they make sense ONLY to God, which is a confession that they make no sense to you.