Return to David's theory of evolution PARTS 1 & 2 (Evolution)

by dhw, Monday, March 21, 2022, 11:11 (760 days ago) @ David Turell

DAVID: The only view of God it is logical to have is humans were God's purpose

And yet you cannot understand why he chose to design all those life forms and foods that had no connection with humans. You even go so far as to tell us “God makes sense only to himself. He has reasons we may not understand.” How wonderful to know that the only logical view is one which doesn’t make sense to us humans!

DAVID: How God felt/thought about that purpose is hidden in His personal thoughts to which we are not privy. God didn't necessarily do it to please Himself.

Of course we are not privy to his thoughts, if he exists.. But “didn’t necessarily” now leaves room for the possibility that he did do it to please Himself. Thank you.

DAVID: God creates, that is His role. We've agreed He must enjoy it.
And on the "brain" thread:
DAVID: The valid point we both have made is God would not create if He disliked it.

Thank you again. We are making great progress. He enjoys it, and it is possible (though not necessarily so) that he created life in order to please himself. I’ll settle for that.

DAVID (from the “brain” thread:) We are a purposeful creation, with God not doing it for His own emotional needs.

I keep repeating that I do not regard God as being “needy”. I am happy with your agreement that he enjoys creating, and therefore by extension it is possible that he creates because he wants to do something he enjoys.

DAVD: He gave us the mental capacity to recognize His existence. There is no way to know if He wished accolades or thanks. Religions do that hopefully: maybe He'll do more for us, make our lives easier, support us, etc. As for God inventing life, it was just a part of the necessary course for God to follow.

There is no way we can “know” anything about him, if he exists, and that is why you and I make our “humanizing” guesses, some of which even coincide. I have no idea what you mean by your last sentence. If God exists, then of course he invented life. What was “necessary” about it? He would have done whatever he wanted to do. And if, as you insist, his purpose was humans, why was it “necessary” to design all the life forms and foods that had no connection with humans?

dhw: “Goal” and “purpose” have now turned into “purposeful endpoint”! We may be the last and the most dominant species, but that does not mean every life form and food was “preparation for us” and “part of the goal of evolving [= designing] humans” plus food. Two days ago, you wrote: “I don’t pretend with my firmly established beliefs. All of evolution, designed by God, prepared for us.” [...] Please stop dodging.[...]

DAVID:Bold all you want. God knows what He is doing. He produced us with His purpose.

Of course he knows what he is doing. And whatever may have been his purpose and his method, it has resulted in his having produced – whether directly or indirectly - humans, dinosaurs, dodos, the duckbilled platypus and every other life form and food that ever existed. How does that come to mean that every other life form and food was "preparation" for us, although most had no connection with us other than the fact that they were all "biochemical"?

DAVID: It is obvious God's actions makes no sense to you, as Adler and I see them. I'm not hiding behind Adler as you pose. I read authorities on how to think about God.

I’m amazed to hear that anyone has the “authority” on how to think about God, and I would be equally amazed to hear that these “authorities” claimed that God’s one and only purpose was to design humans plus food, and therefore he designed countless life forms and foods that had no connection with humans plus food, and God makes sense only to himself and if we want a logical explanation for this theory, we shall have to ask God himself.

Transferred from “Cellular intelligence”:

dhw: You asked what kind of non-war life I imagined, and I have answered. Apart from the few carnivorous species, plants draw their nutrients from inanimate food. They may struggle to survive, but they do not hunt and kill, and I doubt if you would describe a herd of cows munching grass as part of a constant war to survive by eating. According to you, your God specially designed all species, and so he specially designed a constant war. Once more, please tell us why you think he chose to do so.

DAVID: We are animals, evolved from previous animals. Plants appeared long after animals were present. The animals had to attack each other to eat and live. […] Conclusion: war is unavoidable and God chose the correct way to evolve us.

You’re simply describing the system which resulted in the war. I’m not disputing that! I’m asking you why you think your God chose to design such a system. According to you, his only purpose was to design humans plus our food. Why, then, did he design all these different life forms in such a way that they all had to eat and kill one another, including those that eat and kill us or are eaten and killed by us? Why in your eyes is “war” correct, and do you believe your all-powerful God was incapable of designing a peaceful “garden of Eden”?