Return to David's theory of evolution (Evolution)

by David Turell , Sunday, December 04, 2022, 16:43 (718 days ago) @ dhw

DAVID: You are again mixing up creation of organisms and what they do. God creates them per His plan, but after that they are free to act as they will, just as we do. Just as with Earth's God-given climate patterns. Please compartmentalize the different concepts in accusing God of lack of control.

dhw: I am not accusing him of anything. I am questioning the logic of your theories about him. Your statement was “whatever happens is God’s works”. You never cease to tell us that in order to achieve his one and only purpose of designing us and our food, your God needed to design all life styles (e.g. bird migration), all strategies (the opossum playing dead), even birds’ nests (weaverbird) and ant cities, bridges, agriculture, plus murderous viruses and bacteria, plus the countless extinct dead ends that had no connection with his one and only goal. When I ask you to explain why you think your God created all the “works” that had no connection with his goal, you tell me to go and ask him, which means you can’t make sense of your own theory. […]

The bold, as usual, is way off base. I've told you to recognize God created everything, and if so, God felt everything was required to be produced before arriving at humans. All of the odd doings you pick on creates the giant ecosystem that barely feeds us eight billion now. It was all connected with His goal. Your human analysis of His works is simply criticism of God. You would down it more efficiently or invent another God to do it your way. A more clear-thinking theistic philosopher, Adler, used the evolution of humans, as created by God, proved God must exist. You simply throw out his argument with the bath water.

Reading God’s mind

dhw: Do you or do you not agree that the only being who knows what God is like (if he exists) is God himself?

Yes. But a concept of an all-powerful God, as presented in the Bible is the God we MUST discuss. You forget that by presenting human Gods. Stick with the one described.
And under “early fire use”:
DAVID: Your God would be more efficient is your implication. But what must be discussed is the God described in the Bible. Your imagined non-Biblical Gods are beside the point.

dhw: I’m amazed at your sudden devotion to the Bible. This will certainly win you favour with many Jews and Christians, but has absolutely no relevance to the illogicality of your non-biblical theory of evolution, and it does not answer any of the questions which you tell us only your God can answer. In any case, we do discuss the concept of an all-powerful God as presented in the Bible and elsewhere. And we discuss lots of other attributes, like your own certainty that he enjoys creating and is interested in his creations, that he is “kindly”, and that maybe he created us because he wants us to admire his work. You are also certain that the only reason why he created all the failed dead ends was they were necessary for him to be able to design us because “all evolutions advance from failed experiments”, and this somehow confirms his all-powerfulness, because his failed experiments are not failures or experiments. Did you find this in the Bible? Thank you for agreeing that the only being who knows what God is like (if he exists) is God himself. Your personal speculations are not “gospel”.

No, my speculations are Mine, not gospel. And gospel is group think as to what should be published, human best guesses. Just as His possible personal emotions and motives are best guesses. We do discuss the concept of all-powerful but end up with my type and your type, with no agreement between us. My all-powerful is direct, certain, and has a clear view of all desired endpoints to his actions. End points are planned, because every evolutionary process requires them, yes or no! Experimentation or changing his mind in mid-stream is not my all-powerful God. By definition He can't be that way, unlike your weird, weak God.