Return to David's theory of evolution PART TWO (Evolution)

by dhw, Monday, December 27, 2021, 09:08 (841 days ago) @ David Turell

PART TWO

DAVID: Humans as the unusual pinnacle of evolution are proof.

dhw: So you think humans are the proof that your God designed countless extinct life forms that had no connection with humans for the sole purpose of designing humans plus food! And you think this is logical.

DAVID: Adler and I accept historical evolution. Why don't you?

Of course I accept “historical evolution”: it consists of a vast bush of life forms, most of which had no connection with humans, but as far as we know, sapiens were the last species to evolve. “Historical evolution” does not reveal that your God designed every life form, or that he did so for the sole purpose of designing humans plus food. Why don’t you stop dodging?

dhw: It is amazing that you don’t understand that there are TWO possible first causes, each of which I find equally difficult to believe.

DAVID: And I see no equality in the two. God is a vastly more logical cause.

dhw: Of course you are entitled to your opinion.

DAVID: I have more than opinion, since I believe logically.

I accept the “design” logic that underlies your opinion. I also accept the logical argument that if life and consciousness require design, the living, conscious being you call God must have been designed. You opt for the mystery of your first-cause God, and atheists opt for the mystery of how first-cause materials can combine into life and consciousness. I cannot put my faith in either option/opinion.

Importance of ecosystems
QUOTE: "Coccolithophores are tiny, tiny creatures, but they have such huge impacts on all life that most people are not even aware of," Godrijan said. "It brings me hope for our own lives to see how such small things can have such an influence on the planet.'" (David's bold)

DAVID: all of life on Earth is integrated in the way this study illustrates. All created by God-designed evolution. My bold enhances the point that this is an answer to dhw's complaint that all God wanted was 'humans and food'. The complaint is thoughtless, and points out how incompletely dhw has thought through the issue. Every tiny organism is required to sustain the Earth in balance for huge human population.

dhw: The bold and the whole of your comment reveal either confusion or distortion. The bold emphasizes the importance of small things for the planet. Humans are just one species on the planet. Different forms of life are required for different ecosystems, and throughout history, big and small forms have lived and died – all required to sustain the ecosystems that existed at the time. I’m sorry, but I find it absurd to argue that every extinct ecosystem and every extinct big or small thing for the last 3.X billion years was required “for huge human population”!

DAVID: Silly distortion as usual. Bush before was for 'before'. Bush now for 'now'. All required to support each stage of life of 3.8 billion years of evolution for simple stages to complex stages, finally reaching humans, the most complex of all.

dhw: Thank you for repeating my objection to your silly harping on about every life form etc. being required “for huge human population”. All bushes were required for the existence of each extinct set of organisms, most of which had no connection with humans. Yes, humans came last, but that does not explain how each past bush was "part of the goal of evolving humans" plus food. Please stop dodging!

DAVID: Your complaint is so illogical it doesn't create a dodge on my part. The connection you object to in your confusion is evolution involves progressive steps of which we are the last. How can we be the last if the previous rest played no role??

Evolution does not involve one line of progressive steps from bacteria to humans! It involves countless steps towards countless life forms, the vast majority of which did NOT lead to us! That is why, when I ask you why your God created all those life forms that had no connection with us, you reply that you have no idea and I should go and ask God.

Food as well as oxygen allows a speedy change
DAVID: the food supply controls the speed of evolution to some degree, just as it is assumed oxygen does, but neither substance, causes the speed. but allows it. This is why dhw's complaint about 'humans and their food' is so silly.

I agree that food supply and oxygen were vital conditions for the emergence of new species. ALL new species, including ALL those that had no connection with humans. How does that explain why your God would have specially designed ALL those that had no connection with humans if his one and only goal was to design humans and their food, and if bush before was for ‘before’ and bush now is for ‘now’? Please stop trying to divert attention away from the illogicality of your two combined basic premises.