Return to David's theory of evolution and theodicy (Evolution)

by dhw, Tuesday, November 21, 2023, 08:35 (158 days ago) @ David Turell

dhw: […] please stop pretending you know that this was your God’s purpose and method of achieving his purpose and it all makes sense to you. Maybe one or both of your theories are wrong.

DAVID: I'm joined by Adler in our thinking. So I'm not just a nut in the wilderness.

dhw: I do wish you wouldn’t keep cowering behind Adler. You have told us that he uses the uniqueness of humans as proof that God exists. Does he also tell you that we (plus our food) were his God’s one and only purpose, and therefore he specially but incomprehensibly designed and had to cull 99.9 out of 100 species that had no connection with us and our food (except that a fortnight ago they all became our direct ancestors, but now they’re not). And that he can’t think of any reason why his God would use such messy, cumbersome, inefficient methods to achieve his one and only goal? And there are no steps in evolution, except when there are steps. And that God’s form of evolution was to create all species without predecessors, but that is still called evolution? If he doesn’t, I’m afraid you are the only nut in the wilderness.

DAVID: You are now in full distortion. Adler argued his point from the standpoint of accepting Darwin's evolutionary theory. That made humans entirely improbable and therefore God was needed. I am a step further.

Thank you for confirming that Adler does not cover your illogical, dislocated theories, which go several steps further.

DAVID: No Darwin, all God.

And Adler accepted Darwin. Departure, then, from Adler.

DAVID: With God as creator what looks like an evolutionary process is God inventing biologic complexity in stages, for HIS own reasons.

All you and not Adler. But thank you so much for confirming that evolution takes place in stages. Sounds just like Darwin.

DAVID: We are part of the surviving 0.1% and a tiny part of the 99.9% extinct. What is not us, past or present, is all the rest of life on Earth.

Thank you for confirming that we are a tiny part of the 99.9% extinct – namely, the 0.1%. You are quite right that what is not us is all the rest of life, and the 99.9% of extinct forms were also not us or our food, or the ancestors of us and our food. Which is why it is absolutely nonsense for you to claim that your God designed all of them as preparation for us and our food. I’m pleased to hear that this is another of your theories Adler does not support.

DAVID: Pure logic. Most of the process shows large jumps in form or function, and some huge gaps. Life's forms are so irreducibly complex, tiny Darwinian stepwise evolution does not happen. It is all by design, at times without any predecessors.

Pure logic that your God designed 99.9% of species that were irrelevant to his one and only purpose, and you don’t know why. Adler obviously disagrees with you about Darwin’s theory, which does not exclude design, but I’m sure he and Darwin would be happy with your statement that biological complexity proceeds in stages. I’m afraid all this leaves you, to use your own expression, as the only “nut in the wilderness”.

dhw: 3) Design is not synonymous with irreducible complexity! The latter involves a single unit, all of whose parts come into existence simultaneously, are integrated with one another to perform a particular function, and cannot be removed without rendering the unit functionless.

DAVID: Nuts! IC requires design!!!

dhw: But design does not require IC!!! You claim that your God designs everything. So does every individual development of every kind entail one complete unit with all its parts created simultaneously and integrated from the very beginning? See my next comment.

DAVID: Yes, if it is to function. [...]

dhw: So if you cut off my leg, it will still carry on walking, will it? (Or if you think the whole body is IC, will the loss of my leg stop me from breathing?) IC refers to a single unit which is complete in itself. See the discussion on the hypothalamus and the female pelvis on the “More miscellany” thread.

DAVID: The body is an integration of many IC parts.

How can each part be a single unit complete in itself if it cannot function without being integrated with other parts?

DAVID: God create evolution by His designs. It is a total process by design. God's process resembles an evolutionary development.

dhw: How can you call it evolution or even resembling evolution if you insist that all parts of all species are irreducibly complex (i.e. all parts were created simultaneously, as opposed to most being handed down from earlier species) and were designed without precursors?

DAVID: Welcome to evolution by God.

It’s called Creationism.