Return to David's theory of evolution (Evolution)

by David Turell , Wednesday, August 24, 2022, 15:35 (601 days ago) @ dhw

DAVID: Our difference is about food supply. I view the entire bush of life as vital to feed us in this huge population we've grown into.

dhw: Once again you are talking about the present! There is no point in my repeating our "difference", as now bolded above, which you continue to dodge.

It is not a dodge. The present comes from the ongoing evolutionary past. Stop slicing up evolution!

DAVID: As an outsider to belief, try to understand God by assuming everything that happens is under His direct control for His reasons.

dhw: Please stop pretending that my criticisms of your illogical theories, and the logical alternatives I offer, are invalid because I am an agnostic. You do not have any more knowledge of the “truth” than I do. Of course if he exists he has his reasons for doing what he has done. Your theories make no sense to you. You agree that my alternatives are logical and make sense to you, but you reject them because they endow him with different human attributes than those you incorporate into your own theories.

DAVID: Once again, stop accusing me of nonsense. My theories are perfectly logical to me, if not to you, as your now bolded statement shows.

dhw: My bolded statement agrees that he has his reasons. I keep asking you to explain your theories, such as the one bolded above, but you can’t, and your answer is that they “make sense only to God”. That can only mean that they do not make sense to you!

I accept God's historical works in our recorded history. My analyses then try to understand why God did it that way. They make sense to me. if not to you

DAVID: God is not in the business of creating organisms primarily for His enjoyment, or interest, or entertainment. These are secondary after events that may or may not occur. God purposely creates what He wishes is all we can know.

dhw: We agree 100% that if he exists, he purposely creates what he wishes. If you are sure he "enjoys" and is "interested", you have no reason to dismiss the idea that he might primarily “wish” to create things he will enjoy and be interested in! (That includes us.)

DAVID: God does not need self-gratifying results of His creations.

dhw: My personal view would be that (if he exists) he doesn’t “need” them – I don’t imagine him thinking he’d be miserable without them. I am simply following up on your own certainty that he enjoys creating and is interested in his creations, and I propose that in that case, it is feasible that he creates things because he wants to enjoy the occupation of creating and wants to create things that will interest him. Just a theory, but perfectly logical, don’t you think?

No, He is not that human. He doesn't create out of self-interest.

dhw: I keep pointing out all the possible “human” attributes you ascribe to your God […]

DAVID: Of course, God has some human like attributes but they don't drive His purposes.

dhw: How can you possibly know that?

DAVID: We can only observe what God does, anything more is pure conjecture, and we've done plenty of that.

dhw: Correct. So please stop assuming that your illogical conjectures must be true and none of my logical alternatives can possibly be true because you are a believer and I am an agnostic.

DAVID: If you assume my theories make no sense to me, I can assume your theories are the results of false assumptions about God, especially His personality.

dhw: I do not “assume” your theories of evolution (e.g. the one I have bolded above) make no sense to you. You have said so yourself when you tell us you can’t know God’s reasons for the purpose and actions you impose on him, and they “make sense only to God”.

The bold: But you insist that your God also individually designed all those past life forms and econiches that did NOT lead to us and our food, which makes nonsense of your claim that we and our food were his one and only purpose.

You refuse to accept my reasoning that all of the past leads to the giant current bush of food supply. What you are constantly doing is separating the past from now!!!

dhw: I have no idea what gives you the right to assume that my theories are “false assumptions” when nobody can possibly know the truth about your God’s personality (if he exists).

I have every right to disagree with your designed personality of God.