Return to David's theory of evolution PARTS 1 & 2 (Evolution)

by dhw, Monday, May 09, 2022, 11:23 (927 days ago) @ David Turell

Chixculub

dhw: The issue is your theory of evolution, i.e. your belief that your God’s one and only purpose was to design H. sapiens and our food supply, and yet (a) he individually designed countless species and food bushes that did not lead to H. sapiens, and (b) in spite of his all-powerfulness and ability to design species directly without precursors, he chose to design H. sapiens – his sole purpose -in stages.

DAVID: You refuse to accept what I accept. God knows what He wishes to do and how to do it. You simply object to accepting the evidence from history.

If God exists, then I accept that he would do what he wished to do. I do not accept your interpretation of what he wished to do and how he did it, because the evidence from history contradicts your interpretation which – as you agree yourself – does not make sense even to you! (“God makes sense only to Himself.”)

DAVID: […] You put human logic against God's.

No, I put my human logic against your human illogicality. There are other theories that would make your God’s actions perfectly logical.

DAVID: The bush has many goals along the way to finally humans.

dhw: […] Please tell us what other goals he had apart from designing humans and our food.

Please answer.

dhw: […] you don’t even know if Chixculub was a deliberate action or an accident? Wouldn’t a “totally new direction” following an unplanned accident suggest a change of mind, and again, why bother designing the dinosaurs if all he wanted right from the start was H. sapiens?

DAVID: I'll stick with planning for mammals.
And
DAVID: There were obvious stepwise goals all along the way to humans, the final goal.

Please tell us how your God’s designing of dinosaurs, and their subsequent deliberate or accidental extinction after about 150 million years, demonstrate that your God’s one and only plan was to design “stepwise” Homo sapiens and our food?

Schroeder (transferred from "More miscellany"):

DAVID: […] Shroeder's thinking is just like mine. Your thought patterns are just not in our fraternity.

dhw: Still learning, changes his presence and his mind, allows nature to rebel (general characteristics illustrated by biblical stories)…..Not quite the same as your all-powerful, always-in-control God who knows and does exactly what he wants right from the start, is it? The extract stops before evolution, so are you sure he believes God designed every species and food bush in preparation for us, and does Schroeder also tell us that only God knows why he didn’t design us directly?

DAVID: I've read all his books, spoken with him personally at a book presentation and I fully believe he would be my twin in these discussions.

The above shows major differences between his concept of God and yours. However, if he really does believe in your combined theories of evolution (as bolded above), which remains the issue in dispute between us, please tell us how he explains what you find impossible to explain.

DAVID: You can't deny you do not think about God as believers do.

dhw: […] In terms of God’s existence, of course I think differently. But that doesn’t mean every believer thinks the same way as you do about God or about evolution! The Schroeder article begins:

"In this groundbreaking exploration, a biblical scholar and M.I.T.-trained physicist combines decades of research to change the debate between religion and science, presenting a new paradigm of how to understand God."

dhw: A new paradigm. So obviously he doesn’t think about God the way a lot of other people do, and that’s even before we get onto your illogical theory of evolution. Anyone can think about God(s), and my agnosticism does not mean I can’t ponder over his purposes, methods and nature as rationally as you or Schroeder – especially when your own theories are so blatantly self-contradictory.

DAVID: See above. Schroeder tried to introduce some of his particle physics background into the discussion, adding science to his biblical beliefs, a new paradigm.
And:
DAVID: You will never understand Schroeder and I simply accept what God obviously did. Adler is the same. God logic is not your feeble human logic. This is why I tell you, you will never understand how we believers view God

See above. Schroeder’s view of God shows that he does not think about God as lots of other believers do – including yourself. You hide behind acceptance of what God did as a means of avoiding the specific details of your combined theories of evolution. Adler doesn’t cover them, and judging by your evasion, I presume Schroeder doesn’t either. If I’m wrong, and if Schroeder echoes you when you say: “What I cannot explain is why God chose evolution over direct creation. Why can’t you accept that explanation?” And “God makes sense only to Himself”, then I will have to say that Schroeder is just as illogical in his thinking as you are. Somehow, I doubt it.