Return to David's theory of evolution and theodicy (Evolution)

by dhw, Friday, September 01, 2023, 11:27 (447 days ago) @ David Turell

DAVID: My God designed evolution with the purpose of producing humans and enough ecosystems for their food. I cannot explain why God chose that route, but it fits history as created by God.

But as usual it leaves out the question why an all-knowing, all-powerful God whose one and only purpose was to create humans and our food, would have specially designed 99 out of 100 species that had no connection with humans and our food.*** You “do not have an answer”, but you can’t see that at least one of your theories re purpose and design must be a “false premise”.

dhw: A God who experimented or created a free-for-all for purposes of enjoyment and discovery could also have “created evolution with 99.9% loss”. Stop dodging!

DAVID: And one who luckily stumbled on humans is no God I can recognize.

dhw: It would not have been luck if he was experimenting. Again you dodge my point, which is that there are logical theistic explanations of the 99.9% loss.

DAVID: Of course, there are logical reasons for the loss, a normal culling loss.

How many “normal” evolutions of life on Earth do you know of? Why do you constantly leave out the all-important part of your theory that your God individually designed the 99.9% which had no relevance to his purpose. “Oh,” said God, “I only want humans plus food, but normally in evolution there are 99.9% of organisms that have no connection with my purpose, so I’d better design and cull them.”

dhw: Why shouldn’t our enjoyment of and interest in creation and discovery reflect thought patterns of our creator (if he exists)? Why do you insist that what you call his inefficient designs and his deliberate creation of the causes of evil make him more godlike than the above versions?

DAVID: My God follows definite planned purposes.

dhw: So does mine. Now please answer my questions.

DAVID: My God does not need self-enjoyment from His creations. He is selfless. As all-knowing, He chose to evolve us rather than directly create us.

If he exists, I have no objection to the final statement, since we did evolve. But see under “early pre-humans” on the "Miscellany" thread. I have no idea how you can possibly know that your first-cause God, who created all of life, does not have any feelings of “self”, and since you are certain that he enjoys creating and is interested in his creations, I have no idea how you can possibly know that he does not enjoy creating and is not interested in his creations, or why you attach “self” to enjoyment. You make it sound as if enjoyment is some sort of masturbation.

Evolution and theodicy

DAVID: Eden without competition was a dead end.

dhw: Since when was “competition” synonymous with “evil”? Do you think the world would come to an end if we didn’t have war, murder, rape, famine, flood, disease? ***

You keep dodging this question
.
DAVID: That is what theists discussing theodicy conclude.

dhw: Do they really? Then please tell me their answers to the questions*** you keep ignoring. Do they all agree that the problem of theodicy is solved by pretending that evil is too minor to discuss, that their God’s designs are inefficient, and he is incapable of preventing the evil he has to create even though he doesn’t want to?

Not answered.

DAVID: To have life we must accept the rare side effects, which you view in a cumulative state, while actual rate is .0000000% of activity. Stop distorting real statistics

dhw: I have no idea what you’re trying to prove. The so-called “side effects” of bad bugs and bad humans affect millions of people, regardless of your “statistics”. Evil exists, so take your head out of the sand and consider its implications in the context of your all-powerful, all-good God.(David’s bold)

DAVID: Your generalized bold above comes from what temporal statistics? Please quote evil in specific time periods accepted studies.

This is your silliest ever dodge. Who can possibly compile an accurate list of all the victims of all wars, murders, rapes, floods, famines, diseases etc. since life began? Do you or do you not accept that all these forms of evil have affected millions of people? The following exchange illustrates your head-in-the-sand approach:

More microbiome benefits

QUOTE: Millions of children worldwide suffer from allergic disorders, including eczema, asthma, and hay fever[...]...

DAVID: What is the support for your 'millions'??

The above article which you have offered us – and that relates to only one form of “evil”.

DAVID: Theodicy never dodged. Your *** is a totally false premise, couched as to be unanswerable.

dhw: Your main approach to theodicy is to tell me to ignore evil. My *** is not a premise but a repeat of your illogical theory.

DAVID: No, an overt distortion of my theory.

Your theory is that a) your God’s sole purpose was to design us and our food, and (b) he designed 99.9% of species that had no connection with this purpose, but you have no idea why. Please tell me what I have distorted.