Return to David's theory of evolution PARTS ONE & TWO (Evolution)

by dhw, Thursday, April 06, 2023, 09:12 (386 days ago) @ David Turell

dhw: If God exists, then for those of us who believe in evolution, of course he produced humans and every other organism by evolution, either directly or indirectly. How does that explain your theory that we were his one and only goal, and therefore he designed 99 out of 100 species that had nothing to do with his goal? Stop dodging!

DAVID: Logic: He produced us through evolution which REQUIRES that demonstrated historically that low survival. You again are asking why evolve? I can't know!!!
And:
DAVID: A necessary result of living evolution, per Raup. it is a screening, culling process.

If your God exists, he invented the system of evolution! And so you have him forcing himself to design 99 out 100 species that have no connection with the purpose you impose on him, and then to “screen” or “cull” them” (= Darwin’s “natural selection”), which means kill them off by designing them with limited adaptability, and you have no idea why! My alternative theistic theories offer logical explanations for the 99 species you can’t explain, and your only objection is that they entail human-type thought patterns and emotions, although you agree that your God must have human-type thought patterns and emotions.

DAVID: As for goal our extraordinary brain, the most complex item in the universe makes US THAT GOAL. Exactly Adler's point.

So all the other less complex life forms, 99% of which had no connection with us and our food, were deliberately designed for no reason you can think of, as a result of which your God is to be mocked as an inefficient, cumbersome, messy designer.

DAVID: My complaint is your humanized God thinks and acts like a human, not in any way God-like.

dhw: Quite apart from the fact that you yourself once talked of “failed experiments”, and you yourself are certain that he enjoys creating and is interested in his creations (these are the three “human” features of my alternative theories), your complaint is that although you agree your God has thought patterns and emotions like ours, he cannot possibly have acted in a manner which is based on thought patterns and emotions like ours!

DAVID: As a highly purposeful, all-knowing God I imagine, His thought patterns fit that role!!

The God you imagine is an inefficient, cumbersome, messy designer, who enjoys creating and is interested in his creations, but does not experiment because he has forced himself to design 99 out of 100 species irrelevant to his purpose. This apparently makes him less human and more godlike than the highly purposeful but not necessarily all-knowing God I imagine, who successfully experiments, enjoys creating, and is interested in his creations.

dhw: As for “bad luck”, it was the bad luck of the 99 that your God created them in order to kill them off. As for God’s dependence on luck, random conditions dictated what species he could design, and which one of the 100 would survive to enable him to pursue his only goal. And so you have to change your story when it comes to the Cambrian, when all of a sudden he does control conditions, and starts all over again by designing our ancestors from scratch – thereby rendering 100 out of 100 previous species unnecessary.

DAVID: Fully explained before: the advanced biochemistry developed in the Edicaran prepared for the new forms in the Cambrian. You have acknowledged this previously. Stop shifting your replies.

All speciation entails biochemical change, and this is totally irrelevant to the fact that you have your God specially designing every life form to fit in with changes in the environment which are beyond his control, but then suddenly taking control of the environment in order to design our ancestors from scratch, i.e. without predecessors. Do you really believe he could not have created the necessary biochemical make-up of our ancestors if he hadn’t first created it in species irrelevant to his purpose (if that is what he did)? Or is it possible that earlier forms were successful experiments, as he tested different ways of creating a being that would have thought patterns and emotions like his own?

dhw: You then switch to your usual escape route of what Adler has to say on the subject, although in fact he has nothing to say on the subject.

DAVID: Adler accepted evolution with all its bells and whistles.

So do we all. But you have told us Adler never even mentions the out-of-tune bells and whistles that you attach to evolution.

DAVID: An all-powerful God produced us using that cumbersome system.

dhw: So now it has become a fact that your all-powerful God is an inefficient, cumbersome, messy designer. If he exists, I hope he has a sense of humour.

DAVID: God knows Himself. You don't.

And you do?