More miscellany Parts One & Two (Evolution)

by David Turell , Tuesday, October 08, 2024, 18:30 (44 days ago) @ dhw

Free-for-all

DAVID: A cell is all proteins in one form or another. The problem is folding in correctly. Proteins are free to do that.

dhw: I was a bit surprised to see this, so I googled and found “All cells are made from the same major classes of organic molecules: nucleic acids, proteins, carbohydrates, and lipids.” It doesn’t matter. Let’s just stick to cells.

I should have said the working part of cells. The other parts are support structures

dhw: […] Are you telling us that the cancerous cells try but fail to obey your God, or are you telling us that the cancerous cells find their own means of survival and expansion? Why are they so often successful if they are trying but failing to obey your God’s instructions?

DAVID: They use cell DNA instructions for their own use and do it well, anti-God in action.

dhw: Your God gives cells instructions on how to deal with “mistakes”, and cancer cells use the instructions to create the “mistakes” that God’s instructions were supposed to correct. Don’t you find this a little confusing?

No. Cancer is cancer! Very rebellious.

Exit the perfect God (see earlier)

DAVID: The 'exit' is yours. God knew in His omniscience the ONLY system that could work. It does work. We are here and helping.

dhw: In his omniscience he knew that he was not omnipotent, was incapable of designing a Garden of Eden, and of correcting rebellious cells, but hoped we humans could help him out, although “he has no wishes[/b]”.

DAVID: No, He doesn't. Life means creating a working system. The workings of the universe are simple is comparison.

dhw: So, having no wishes, when he decided to create a working system for life, he did not wish to create a working system for life. And when, according to you, your omniscient, omnipotent God created us to correct the mistakes he couldn’t correct, he did not wish that we would correct the mistakes. He is, however, benevolent – which means he cares for us – but he can’t be benevolent because some humans are benevolent, and your God is not human “in any way”.

From the other thread: "It was the rediscovery of Adler's 50/50 that set off my line of thought about God's selflessness. His only known purpose is to create humans. Could there be self-serving motives that I suggested as you note above? If we accept them as human wishes for a close relationship without knowing if God cares or not, they can be stated that way as reasonable statements. I am allowed to redevelop my thoughts about God as we discuss Him."

Early galaxies

dhw: You just asked why I couldn’t see the obvious purpose, and now you agree that there is no obvious purpose for me to see. It is very helpful of you to demolish your own viewpoints for me. Thank you.

DAVID: That we have no current knowledge does not mean we can't see current purpose. We are here.

dhw: (a)That doesn’t tell us the “obvious” reason why the universe has to be as it is, and (b) why fly-eating fungi, cancer, floods and famines, murderous bugs etc. are also here, and their obvious purpose is….?

In your view to create an entertaining free-for-all form of entertainment for your humanized God.

Disappearance of Neanderthals

Latest suppositions:
https://www.livescience.com/archaeology/did-we-kill-the-neanderthals-new-research-may-f...

The full title is: Did we kill the Neanderthals? New research may finally answer an age-old question.

Even I already knew most of these speculations, and the age-old question has emphatically not been answered.

QUOTE: The really exciting questions like 'Why did Neanderthals disappear?' 'Why did they go extinct?' no longer can have one overarching theory" she said. "Neanderthals as a whole did not have a cohesive, shared fate."

DAVID: the exact story is still unknown but the above guesswork is a good summary.

dhw: Once again, I agree with David. The two really exciting questions are in fact exactly the same (disappear = go extinct). Has there ever been one overarching theory? As you say, we have a summary of various possible causes, some of them pure speculation: “….raising the question of whether modern humans were responsible for killing them off". “Neanderthals may have suffered for that…” . “Neanderthals had many problematic mutations that likely affected their survival.” “Modern humans were likely more capable of thinking quickly.”

New research promises new discoveries, not repeated guesses.

It is good to review the guesswork. It points out the gaps in what we know.