Return to David's theory of evolution PART TWO (Evolution)

by David Turell , Friday, June 02, 2023, 17:44 (330 days ago) @ dhw

PART TWO

dhw: However, I will repeat the answer I keep giving you. If God exists and performed experiments (first two theories), just like the humans he created in his own image, he would not have known all the possible effects of his experiments. (I doubt if the first AI experimenters would have envisaged the now terrifying prospect that their inventions could lead to the end of the human species.) The third theory, the free-for-all, has his original invention creating its own goods and bads, again without his foreknowledge. In none of these theories does he set out knowingly to create evil. A different question might be: why doesn’t he stop the carnage? I have no idea. Maybe he doesn't exist, maybe he can’t, maybe he enjoys the show, maybe he’s abandoned it, maybe he’s dead. Our dispute is over why he created it in the first place. Now please tell us what “mutual contradictions” you have found in my alternative theories.

You still refuse to respond.

Of course your not-all-knowing God would not expect evil in free-will humans He created. Part of the contradictions is a God who can create life and thinking humans with free-will and doesn't 'know' in advance the obvious result, evil humans will appear, as simple logical thinking. Your un-knowing God is basically illogical in His thinking.

DAVID: So the answer is your know-nothing God went on creating evolution without realizing the consequences of His actions.

dhw: Not being all-knowing does not mean knowing nothing! Our subject is theodicy here – why he created the various “evils” in the first place. Of course he would eventually see the effects of all his experiments. That is what gives rise to the second question: why doesn’t he step in and stop it?

The writers of the Bible thought He stepped in at times. But we are now non-Biblical, and we still have free-will and Putin. Would your guy step in?

DAVID: You state He doesn't do anything about it or abandons it.

dhw:Clearly he has not stepped in to stop it! We don’t know why, but I’ve offered a little list of possibilities. Once again, the question is why he created it in the first place.

We ae back to He wanted to for His own reasons.

DAVID: At the level of evolution, He is a complete stupid dud.

dhw: In your version he is messy, cumbersome, inefficient and sadistic. In mine, he conducts successful experiments (every living form is a success) or he creates a free-for-all. In none of these scenarios does he deliberately and knowingly create evil. Why does that make him a stupid dud?

how does your guy handle the arrival of evil?

DAVID: How did your God invent the universe, the perfect Earth fit for life, and make life itself, if He didn't know the consequences of His designs.

In the same way as humans (he and we have thought patterns in common, remember?) come up with wonderful inventions and discoveries, and then become aware of later effects they never dreamt of. Think of the motor car, smoking, industrial pollution, climate change, nuclear weapons, AI, germ warfare etc. But you insist that your God is all-powerful and all-knowing. So perhaps you will tell us why he carried on if he already knew the consequences in advance?

He is letting humans handle their own affairs. What would your guy do?

DAVID: He is OK until He has to evolve life and then falls apart. No wonder you don't really believe in Him.

dhw: You already have him using a messy, cumbersome and inefficient method to achieve the goal you set him, and with your insistence on his omniscience, you now have him deliberately and sadistically creating evil. Successful experiments and a successful free-for-all do not denote a God falling apart. They only denote a God with a different purpose from yours and different methods of achieving his purpose. And please don’t fall back on my agnosticism as a defence of your derogatory picture of your God.

Your guy saw the same appearance of evil. What did He do?