Return to David's theory of evolution and theodicy (Evolution)

by David Turell , Sunday, July 09, 2023, 15:27 (501 days ago) @ dhw

Theodicy

dhw: And so the reason for your all-good, all-powerful God deliberately designing evil with all the resultant suffering is to make us use our big brains. Now please give us a reason why he has deliberately created this “challenge”. Once upon a time, you thought he had created us because he wanted us to recognize his wonderful work, and maybe form a relationship with us. Do you think we are supposed to admire his wonderful, murderous bacteria and viruses and big-brained baddy humans, and thank him for giving us goodies the big brains to fight against the evils and suffering he has deliberately created?

DAVID: Free will means humans producing unexpected results.

dhw: So if that is what he wanted from us, why do you refuse to even contemplate the possibility that he might have created the process of evolution as a free-for-all because he wanted unexpected results?

DAVID: Back to a God blind to the future. Why don't you like a purposeful creator?

dhw: You have just said your God gave humans free will so that the results would be unexpected. Still wearing my theist hat, I have proposed that the same desire for “unexpected results” may explain the whole history of evolution, which presents us with a vast variety of life forms that have come and gone. His purpose: enjoyment of creation (whether direct or indirect) and the desire to create things that he will find interesting. This ties in with your own certainty that he enjoys creating and is interested in his creations. Now will you please answer my question.

I have responded to your very slanted question above many times. Bacteria and viruses overwhelmingly do good when all results are balanced. The same applies to humans.

dhw: But there are two separate questions here: why did your all-good God create evil (or why did he create a world of “challenges” in which good battles with evil), and why doesn’t he intervene now that he sees the chaos he has created? You have dodged the first question, and I have offered a list of possible responses to the second.

DAVID: I think the time for an intervening G0d is over.

dhw: Please tell us why.

No evidence of overt Godly actions for many centuries, while I am aware Catholicism accepts miracles.

DAVID: For the first question, answered above, the big brain is there for a reason, and we can mitigate evil in many ways.

dhw: And what do you think might be his reason for creating evil and creating our big brains to produce evil of their own as well as to fight against evil? Please don’t forget that your all-good, all-powerful God is also all-purposeful.

Evil is a byproduct of all that is good. Bugs in wrong places and humans with freewill choosing evil.

David's theory of evolution

DAVID: Since God chose to develop humans in a stepwise fashion through evolution, the 99.9% culled out are absolutely necessary.

dhw: In your nonsensical theory, the problem is not the culling but the deliberate creation of 99 unnecessary organisms which have to be culled!

dhw: In order to dodge this argument, you returned to the theodicy problem.

My return was to repeat, God chose to evolve us for His own reasons, rather than directly create us.

DAVID: God's reason is He wants us to use our big brain. A Garden of Eden existence is boring. Life is meant to be challenging.

dhw: Boring for whom?

For us.

dhw; If we continue to use the Eden metaphor, why do you think your all-knowing God deliberately created the serpent, knowing the havoc it would cause? Who “meant” life to be challenging, with all its diseases and wars etc.? Your God is interested in his creations. You have him also wanting unexpected results.

"Unexpected results"? My purposeful God knows exactly what to expect.

dhw: Put the two together, and you have a logical explanation for the history of evolution, a possible explanation for theodicy, and a clear purpose: A Garden of Eden would be boring for your God.

I agree God would be bored by Eden, as a theoretical consideration.

dhw: NB All of your negative views concerning your God’s inefficiency as a designer and his deliberate, callous (possibly sadistic) creation of evil and its terrible consequences may be correct. My alternative explanations are no less theoretical than your own, and in some cases can also be interpreted as negative. We don’t even know if your God exists, let alone how he thinks.

Same confusion on your part. God is an excellent designer using a cumbersome stepwise evolutionary method.