Return to David's theory of evolution (Evolution)

by dhw, Saturday, December 03, 2022, 12:56 (719 days ago) @ David Turell

DAVID: God plans everything. The dead ends are part of His designed evolution.

shw: I‘m splitting up your non-reply because it is a series of non sequiturs, each of which is a contradiction in itself. Firstly, your God specially designs dead ends that have no connection with his one and only purpose because “all evolutions advance from failed experiments”, but no experiments are needed, and later we will learn that the failures were not failures because they were designed to be failures.

DAVID: As you raise your questions, I am allowed to rethink what I present as my views of how God must work. You demand more specificity. So: whatever happens is Gods works is the start. All failed dead ends are part of His planned design of evolving humans.

We can certainly agree that if God exists, whatever happens is the result of his work. But once again you are hiding behind vague generalisations. For instance, whatever you, I, or anyone else does is “what happens”, but even you will not claim that what you say, do, write, think is “God’s works”. You have already told us that “similar to climate these ocean currents ran on their own, not under God’s intimate controls,” so not God’s work. And you have viruses and bacteria causing untold harm because they wander off in directions your God did not intend them to go (= not God’s work). The idea of a free-for-all is an extension of your own belief that whatever happens is NOT always God’s work. Of course I demand more “specificity”! As regards the failed dead ends, you go on to tell us they are not failures, because although they played no part in fulfilling his one and only purpose (us and our food), he deliberately designed them to fail, although you don’t know why because your theory “makes sense only to God”.

DAVID: When organisms are no longer needed to supply food, they disappear.

dhw: Organisms disappear because they can’t get food, not because no other organism wants to eat them!

DAVID: Or they fail to adapt to changes! As planned.

Your first statement was nonsense, but failure to adapt to change is spot on. You are left with the inexplicable theory that your God specially planned the failures that were not failures so that they would fail to adapt.

DAVID: Raup called extinctions bad luck, not a failure to survive.

dhw: Extinction MEANS failure to survive! Of course this may be the result of bad luck. According to you, it’s their bad luck that God specially designed them because he wanted them to fail to lead to his one and only purpose – presumably in order to prove your theory that all evolution advances from failed experiments, though he doesn’t experiment and doesn’t fail.

DAVID: From above: whatever happens is Gods works. All failed dead ends are part of His planned design of evolving humans.

As above: a theory which makes no sense even to you. We can skip the subsequent repetitions, except that I will repeat your own earlier comment: “When you finally find out God’s reasoning, tell me and the whole world!”

Reading God’s mind

QUOTE: “But that is not what God is like, given that he is eternal or outside time, and that he is omniscient and doesn’t have to “figure things out” through some kind of reasoning process." (David’s bold)

dhw: This is the same intellectual arrogance as that of Richard Dawkins (who calls God a “delusion”), which first spurred me into writing the “brief guide” and setting up this website. Nobody "knows" whether God exists or doesn't exist, and nobody "knows" what God is like if he does exist.

DAVID: What is wrong with the assertion God is outside time?

Why do you pick on just one of the assertions? It’s the whole package that I object to. A discussion of “outside time” would mean returning to a definition of “time”. No need.

DAVID: note the bolded comments that many people have their own version of God. The message here is there is only one theistic accepted version of God, as described. I strongly agree with this description of God's attributes. dhw please note.

dhw: Accepted by whom? How dare anyone say that their version is correct and anyone who disagrees is wrong? That is the basis of all the destructive religious prejudices that have done so much damage to human society throughout history. Again: bbbThe only being who knows what God is like is God himself, if he exists. (My bold)

DAVID: If you try theistic theories they are solely unique to you. And rigid. Please start with God creates everything. That is an acceptable requirement.

It is not, as detailed at the beginning of this post. You are the one who has come up with rigid theistic theories about evolution which make no sense to you, and I have offered alternative explanations which you reject simply because they do not fit in with your own ”humanizations”. Do you or do you not agree that the only being who knows what God is like (if he exists) is God himself?