Return to David's theory of evolution and theodicy;Plantinga (Evolution)

by David Turell , Sunday, March 17, 2024, 14:56 (41 days ago) @ dhw
edited by David Turell, Sunday, March 17, 2024, 15:09

Yesterday I wrote a complete response to each point made in the article. There is no room or need to repeat all of it here, as the requisite details are contained in my response to David.

dhw: All this muddled thinking, with its baseless assumptions about God’s nature, thoughts and motives, stems from one of the most insightful comments you have ever made about your own preconceptions: “I first choose a form of God I wish to believe in. The rest follows.” Clearly you are not alone.

DAVID: Plantinga's key point: "Plantinga explains that a morally perfect, omnipotent being can allow evil to exist if, in his perfect omniscience he has a morally sufficient reason for doing so — that is, a reason that would justify permitting the evil. bbbPlantinga further suggests a possible reasonbbb (dhw’s bold): that God deemed human free will to be something of great value, even though the existence of free will makes possible the existence of evil. Thus, there is a third option: God might allow evil for good reasons." Which comes back to this implication: God has reasons we cannot understand but must accept. Yes, both Plantinga and I accept the same God as a starting point.

dhw: Your answer is one big dodge. Plantinga’s starting point is the unproven theory that God is omnipotent, omniscient and all-good (“morally perfect”), and apparently loves us humans, although the Bible has him slaughtering all humans (babes included) except for one family (the Flood) and giving orders for the slaughter of all unbelievers and the destruction of their cities (Deuteronomy). And then Plantinga gives us one reason and one reason only for evil: God gave us free will because “even though free will entails the possibility that they might choose evil; relationships grounded in real love are not possible unless both parties enter into them willingly.”.And you agree! He wants us to love him (and elsewhere you have him wanting us to recognize and worship him). But you think your God is selfless!!! And who cares if the evil that God deliberately "allows" causes untold misery to millions of humans, whether they love God or not? Obviously your all-good God doesn’t, or he would never have created the concept in the first place. This is what you are proud to accept!

You have fallen into the same Old Testament trap as you apply to Plantinga now bolded above. We have agreed the Bible, written by humans expresses human wishes for what they want God to be. Both you and I have our own impressions, as equally cogent as anyone else. Granted neither of us like the other's.