More miscellany Parts One & Two (Evolution)

by David Turell , Sunday, September 08, 2024, 18:24 (10 days ago) @ dhw

Black holes needed for life

DAVID: My evidence is irrefutable. Life's highly complex biochemical design requires a designer.

dhw: But apparently a conscious mind capable of designing universes, galaxies, dinosaurs, elephants, termites and conscious brains does not require a designer. Why do you think first cause, ready-made superintelligence is more likely than first cause, primitive intelligence that evolves? (Reminder: I accept the logic of both approaches, which is why I remain agnostic.)

Your logic falls short. Only a conscious intelligent mind can produce the recognition of design that made you agnostic. Note the requirement for consciousness.

Bacterial intelligence

dhw: Presumably then your God has given all bacteria instructions on whatever movements they should make in their on-going battle for survival. So did he give them instructions to infect us with fatal diseases?

DAVID: No, a side effect of His good works.

dhw: Sorry, but that is not an answer. If good bacteria survive by unthinkingly obeying God’s instructions, does that mean that your God only gave autonomous thought (intelligence) to bad bacteria?

DAVID: Bad bacteria carry the same instructions as good bacteria. Why do you differentiate?

dhw: How can they be the same instructions if the bad bacteria kill instead of cure? Either your God instructed them to kill, or they autonomously rebelled against your God’s instructions. Or, of course, all bacteria, good and bad, were given the ability to design their own means of survival.

Your last sentence is the answer. Good bacteria in the wrong places are bad.

Zombified flies

DAVID: You've answered your question. For us and our food supply.

dhw: So your God specially designed the fly-eating fungus as part of our food supply. Can’t see this recipe catching on. Can you?

Yes, as part of a necessary ecosystem.

Kamikaze termites

DAVID: The biochemical complexities can only come from a designing mind.

dhw: One designing mind may have designed other designing minds, like ours, or those of our bacterial friends and enemies. And we still have the same problem as above: Termites evolved millions of years before us. Explosive rucksacks necessary for the design of humans and our food?

DAVID: Eventually, yes. For all the ecosystems supporting us.

dhw:Your God specially designed explosive rucksacks, fly-eating fungi and weaverbird nests because they were necessary for our existence. You don’t find this just a little far-fetched?

No, each for God's reasoning.

Butterfly wing colors

DAVID: Does God need a human form of enjoyment? NO. Only you would make Him in that image. You invent God's needs.

dhw: And you simply ignore the fact that enjoyment does not denote need. What, in heaven’s name, is wrong with your own earlier proposal that your God might enjoy creating and be interested in his creations?

The concept of needs is the issue. A selfless God has no emotional needs. My prior proposals are a human wish for a relationship God may not care about. (Adler 50/50.)