Return to David's theory of evolution and theodicy (Evolution)

by dhw, Sunday, July 02, 2023, 11:17 (300 days ago) @ David Turell

Theodicy

dhw: Now your answer is that theft, rape, murder, genocide etc. make us more complete and enhanced, that he was powerless to prevent mistakes, and he was unable to devise a system which would not produce natural catastrophes, plus murderous bacteria and viruses (but he tried hard, though often unsuccessfully, to provide remedies in advance).[…]

DAVID: You don't realize His editing worked 99% of the time. You just glorify the rare mistake. Your god had the same results, didn't He?

dhw: And still you desperately try to confine the subject to “miscues” in the biochemistry. I have no idea where you get your 99% figure from, but I do know that millions of people suffer illness and death from the errors, and that is the subject of the discussion. I have now changed the bold to other sorts of evil.

DAVID: Again, it is proportional. How many in prison for crime compared to 300 million plus not in prison in this country. Again, ignoring your God and His evils.

It is YOU who try to ignore God and his evils by pretending that the evil is minuscule compared to the good!!! Once more, theodicy is concerned with the problem of why a so-called all-powerful, all-knowing, all-good God would have created evil. The problem is not solved by telling us that evil is outweighed by good!

David's theory of evolution

DAVID: It makes perfect sense to me that God chose to evolve us for His own reasons.

dhw: If he exists, of course he chose to evolve all species for his own reasons. […] Stop dodging!

DAVID: No dodge. Logic. I bolded your agreement!! The evolved bush of life is our food!

Yes, our food evolved from the 1% of past species. What does not make sense, as you well know, is your fixed belief that in order to specially design us and our food, your God specially designed the other 99% which had no connection with us and our food. Stop dodging!

DAVID: I’ve always thought God created a dog-eat-dog world. One purpose, another was humans. (dhw’s bold) […]

dhw: Originally you thought his only purpose was to design us and our food. But now you are telling us that he had another purpose: to design lots of other life forms, unconnected with us, which would engage in a dog-eat-dog battle for survival. […] So please tell us why you think he would have wanted to create all these creatures to fight one another, knowing that most of them would disappear anyway.

DAVID: Still seeking an answer I don't have. At each stage all have to eat, thus each stage is large.

The fact that all organisms have to eat does not explain why, according to you, your purposeful God specially designed all the organisms just so they could fight one another! I have taken up your earlier expression of certainty that he enjoys creating, and watches his creations with interest, as being a logical purpose in itself for his creation of the dog-eat-dog battle. We humans also enjoy creating things we can watch with interest, and as you have repeatedly agreed, if God exists, we may reflect him and share some of his thought patterns and emotions. (See below)

Edited from “bacterial gut help”

dhw: […] I’m delighted that you have accepted the idea that it is a free-for-all, which means your God did not deliberately design 99% of life forms that were irrelevant to what you believe to have been his goal.

DAVID: No!!! The free-for-all is only among pre-designed species and is a free-for-all for survival.

dhw: A sad misunderstanding, as my "means of survival" was supposed to refer to evolutionary innovations. But in that case, we go back to my original question: if your God had a special purpose for specially designing species that would do battle with one another, and if we bear in mind that 99% of them had nothing to do with his other purpose of designing humans, what do you think that special purpose was?

DAVID: Survival involves food supply. Large bushes of life supplied food for all at each stage. 99.9% are that food. You recognize the need for food intake, and then belittle its constant necessity for survival.

Your usual dodge. Do you really think I don’t know that food is necessary for survival? Two questions have arisen from your two theories concerning your God’s PURPOSE. 1) If his one and only purpose was to design us and our food, why did he design 99 out of 100 species that had no connection with us and our food? Your answer: you have no idea. 2) If he deliberately designed all species to fight one another in an endless battle for survival, what might have been his purpose? Your answer: you have no idea. I have offered you a possible answer, as bolded above.