Return to David's theory of evolution PARTS 1 & 2 (Evolution)

by David Turell , Sunday, March 20, 2022, 15:48 (765 days ago) @ dhw

dhw: Please explain why our common ground humanization theory that God enjoys creating and is interested in his creations cannot possibly mean that his purpose for creating life might have been to create things that he would find interesting.

DAVID: A purely human purpose! He doesn't need to create for His enjoyment.

dhw: It doesn’t have to be “need”. You can enjoy something without being needy! We both agree that if God exists, he must have had a purpose in creating life. You say it was to create humans and their food. He must have had a purpose for creating humans. You guess that he might have wanted us to admire his works and to have a relationship with him. Perfectly logical, and human. You also guess (and once were sure) that he enjoys creation and is interested in his creations. Perfectly logical, and human (why would he create if he didn’t enjoy it and wasn’t interested in it?). You agree that we may mimic him and we may share some of his thought patterns and emotions and logic. You could hardly present a stronger case against your own complaint against “humanization” when it comes to the discussion of God’s possible purpose in creating life.

The only view of God it is logical to have is humans were God's purpose. How God felt/thought about that purpose is hidden in His personal thoughts to which we are not privy. God didn't necessarily do it to please Himself. God creates, that is His role. We've agreed He must enjoy it. He gave us the mental capacity to recognize His existence. There is no way to know if He wished accolades or thanks. Religions do that hopefully: maybe He'll do more for us, make our lives easier, support us, etc. As for God inventing life, it was just a part of the necessary course for God to follow.

dhw: “Goal” and “purpose” have now turned into “purposeful endpoint”! We may be the last and the most dominant species, but that does not mean every life form and food was “preparation for us” and “part of the goal of evolving [= designing] humans” plus food. Two days ago, you wrote: “I don’t pretend with my firmly established beliefs. All of evolution, designed by God, prepared for us.” [...] Please stop dodging.[...]

DAVID: Humans are God's endpoint/ending purpose through God's designed evolution. You've said He should have logically (your human logic) used direct creation. He didn't because He doesn't think like you or your supposed god does. At every level from BB on He evolves.

dhw: I am not denying that at every level life has evolved! You are still saying humans were your God’s purpose (now called “ending purpose”), so do you withdraw the bolded comments above or not? Please answer. If you stand by them, it makes no sense to have him specially designing all the species and foods that had no connection with humans plus food. Therefore either he did NOT design every level, or his purpose was NOT confined to achieving just one level plus food. And I propose that God might well think logically like some of us, and not illogically like you!

Bold all you want. God knows what He is doing. He produced us with His purpose. It is obvious God's actions makes no sense to you, as Adler and I see them. I'm not hiding behind Adler as you pose. I read authorities on how to think about God.

Transferred from “Cellular intelligence”:

DAVID: In your Eden all eat plants. We know plants don't like it from current research. You ask why can't we have life without war. Your proposal is a war on plants!! Your whole complaint against God's invention is illogical and spurious.

dhw: You asked what kind of non-war life I imagined, and I have answered. Apart from the few carnivorous species, plants draw their nutrients from inanimate food. They may struggle to survive, but they do not hunt and kill, and I doubt if you would describe a herd of cows munching grass as part of a constant war to survive by eating. According to you, your God specially designed all species, and so he specially designed a constant war. Once more, please tell us why you think he chose to do so.

We are animals, evolved from previous animals. Plants appeared long after animals were present. The animals had to attack each other to eat and live. You want an evolution where plants came first, animals later just eating plants. But many animals cannot digest plants without an intestinal microbiome doing much of the work. That takes us back to requiring bacteria fighting/eating each other. Bacteria started life and are still here helping out in many ways. Conclusion: war is unavoidable and God chose the correct way to evolve us.