More miscellany (Evolution)

by dhw, Monday, June 24, 2024, 12:47 (150 days ago) @ David Turell

DAVID: You don't know how to think about God in true theological ways.

dhw: Please stop pretending that you and you alone know the “true” theological way. Go to any church, synagogue or mosque and inform the vicar, rabbi or imam that God certainly has no human attributes, and therefore certainly doesn’t love us, care for us, or want us to worship him.

DAVID: I don't follow religion's mantras about God.

So you do not think about God the same way as millions of theologists do and have done. [..] And why is it OK for you to oppose mainstream theology but not for me? Back you go to your double standards.

DAVID: I am using Adler, a philosopher of religion, a different level of theologian, and theological thought.

Please stop pretending that YOUR theology is the only “true” one. I am not arguing with Adler but with you.

DAVID: Adler used Darwin's theory so he used what you despise about my theory of God. I am using Adler in an inverted way from your thought pattern. Adler says God made us.

We are not discussing Adler’s “proof” that God exists. You have said he doesn't cover your illogical theory of imperfect, inefficient evolution, and you have contradicted his "unknowability" argument with your pretended knowledge (miraculously reversed today)that your God can't possibly have any human attributes. Stop hiding behind him.

God’s purposes

DAVID: I think we were His prime purpose.

dhw: Please tell us his other purposes - especially for designing the 99.9% of species unconnected with us.

DAVID: Our food supply created by the 99.9% extinct, and the Earth's mineral resources for our use.

dhw: You have agreed that we and our food supply were created by the 0.1% of survivors, but in any case once again you are simply saying that God created everything for our sake. You can't think of any other purposes.

DAVID: Can you?

This confirms your fixed belief that we plus food were your God’s sole purpose – not his “prime” purpose. More dodging. You reject all my theistic alternatives as “humanizing”, but now that you agree your God may have human-like attributes, you have no reason to reject them as “possible” purposes.

Intelligence (and ants)

dhw: All decision-making is based on receiving information in whatever form, processing it, and finding a way to use it. Within a community, communication is another essential feature. Bearing these attributes in mind, do you agree that ants are intelligent?

DAVID: To a small degree.

So you accept that insects have a degree of autonomous intelligence. The question then becomes one of degree. Where do you draw the line?

Asteroids

DAVID: […]. dhw will ask why God allowed this circumstance endangering His favorite humans. The article shows how our God-given brains are solving the problem. Another possible view is God's may have made the decision that life should be challenging, not a Garden of Eden.

dhw: How very kind of your God to create all the natural catastrophes (floods, famines, volcanic eruptions, earthquakes, crippling and fatal diseases) that cause so much suffering, so that we can have problems to solve. And what might have been his purpose for challenging us ?

DAVID: Answered above.

I can’t find any reason above. Please tell us his possible purpose for challenging us.

Giraffes

QUOTE: Giraffes, it turns out, have solved a problem that kills millions of people every year: high blood pressure.

DAVID: It is an example of extreme adaptability requiring many new mutations to solve complex alterations. […] I would suggest these protective mechanisms are designed.

Thank you for another lovely article. I suggest that none of these fascinating facts are “new mutations”, but are adaptations which were brought about by new requirements. In terms of Shapiro’s theory, this means the different cell communities within the body cooperate intelligently in making the necessary changes. I googled the ancestry, and came upon a long and detailed article tracing the whole lineage (the modern giraffe took 8 million years to evolve):
Oxford Academic
https://academic.oup.com › book › chapter

QUOTE: “Against the odds, over a period of 8 million years the genetic material in small gazelle-like Canthumerycids transformed by natural selection into modern long-legged, long-necked giraffes, Giraffa camelopardalis.”

Natural selection doesn’t explain the process, but Shapiro’s theory certainly does, whether or not your God designed the ability of cells to respond to new requirements.

Out of body experiences

QUOTE: "The feeling of disembodiment and removal from the physical realm that characterizes OBEs leads to ego dissolution, the researchers say. That then develops into a strengthening of relationships with other people."

I hope Matt (xeno) is still with us, because this article echoes the process whereby Buddhist meditation reduces the sense of self and enhances that of unity and empathy. I guess it's a kind of self-induced OBE. Different routes to the same “enlightenment".