Return to David's theory of evolution PARTS 1 & 2 (Evolution)

by dhw, Saturday, January 29, 2022, 08:16 (1027 days ago) @ David Turell

DAVID: Creating all of us through evolution is entirely relevant. We evolved from bacteria by God's choice is obvious. Your contorted complaint is not worth answering any more, since it comes from a humanized image of your God.

dhw: By “us” and “we”, you obviously mean humans, and so once more you leave out the whole basis of your illogical theory, which is that he also specially designed countless life forms that were not connected with “us”, even though “we” were apparently his one and only goal. This has nothing to do with the alternative, so-called “humanized” alternatives I offer. Your own theory makes no sense even to you....

DAVID: It makes perfect sense as God's choice of method. If it is illogical it makes Adler the fool, as He assumes God evolved us over time, making our unusual appearance a proof of God.

How many more times are you going to hide behind Adler in order to dodge the issue? Yes, we and every other life form evolved over time, and yes Adler uses us as proof that God exists. And so once more you leave out...see the bold above. Please stop dodging!

The missing fossils argument

DAVID: When are cellular reactions shown to be other than automatic? Not in any study I read or report.

dhw: How many studies have you read in which all cellular actions have been shown to be manipulated by your God, or preprogrammed 3.8 billion years ago, for the sole purpose of producing humans and their food? You keep telling us, quite rightly, that we can only observe cellular actions from the outside, and so it is purely a matter of interpretation whether they demonstrate autonomous intelligence or automatic obedience. You put the odds at 50/50, and then settle for 100/0.

DAVID: I have the right to my 100% side, based on my analysis.

dhw: Of course you do. And your opponents have the same right. That is why we hold our discussions. And I ask you the same question you asked me: How many studies show that your God has given instructions for every cellular reaction ever observed?

DAVID: The studies I review of molecular reactions all assume automaticity.

I don’t have time to compile another list of modern scientists who believe in cellular intelligence, but last time I did, you misinterpreted a quote and told us that you couldn’t be bothered to read the other references. Meanwhile, please answer my bolded question.

DAVID: Agnosticism never proves anything except doubt. God is a reasonable theory. Belief by many.

Nobody can prove anything, but yes, God is a reasonable theory believed by many. How does that prove that your God could not have invented the intelligent cell, or that he kept designing life forms that had no connection with the only life form (plus food) that he wanted to design?

Hibernation
DAVID: Hibernation requires symbiosis with specialized organisms. How does this adaptation work naturally? Not epigenetically since different organisms have to work together. Trial and error would kill if tried suddenly, so it has to be gradual over time and goal directed. How about design?

You may remember that it was Lynn Margulis who first drew the world’s attention to the importance of symbiosis in the process of evolution. Different organisms work together to cope with environmental conditions. I think this has now been generally accepted. Lynn Margulis was also a firm champion of the theory that cells are intelligent organisms. I presume you accept her theory of symbiosis, but you dismiss her theory of cellular intelligence because she died a few years ago and you can’t be bothered to read the work of modern scientists who agree with her.

Life’s required metals
DAVID: God goes as far as He has to in designing.

dhw: I like it. According to you, he has to design everything. I propose that he only has to design the mechanism that enables cell communities to do their own designing. Same God, but at least my proposal explains the higgledy-piggledy bush!

DAVID: Without the bush, not enough food for all. My God knows what He is required to create.

Not again, please! You have agreed explicitly that past bushes were for past life forms and extinct life has no role to play in the present. ALL life forms need food, but that does not mean that all life forms and foods were designed for the sole purpose of designing one life form (us) and our food.