Return to David's theory of evolution (Evolution)

by David Turell , Saturday, February 04, 2023, 19:30 (452 days ago) @ dhw

Raup’s failure rate

DAVID: When will you accept a discussion that recognized my point that God created the history of evolution and therefore, He knew there would be Raup's 99.9% failure rate? His goal of humans happened, so He was successful. This is a view of a perfectly competent God. Evolution is messy, God is not, so there is no reason to stain him with the mess as you do.

dhw: If God exists, he would certainly have created life and a method for evolution. That does not mean that he individually created every single life form, problem, solution, development, strategy, lifestyle, natural wonder etc., for the whole future of life, or that his only aim was to design us and our food, or that he would make mistake after mistake in pursuit of his goal, or that knew in advance that he would make mistake after mistake, or that he would be forced by conditions beyond his control to go on making mistakes until luck provided the right conditions for him to fulfil his goal.

Once again you have immediately veered off my track by accepting a God who made evolution happen and then denying He did it in the now bolded sentence. Let's not have it both ways. If God produced evolution (as you agree), then we must look at the true history of evolution, which is a history of 99.9% failure to survive (Raup). Next logical step: God knew exactly the system He was using would create that failure rate. But!!!, He succedsdsfully had us appear.

dhw: If evolution is messy, and your God invented evolution, then he is responsible for the mess! You said so yourself less than two months ago.

Of course!!!

DAVID: Once God appears, He is responsible for all the messy aspects of evolution.Yes, He is. The whole of evolution is a messy process of successes and failures.”

dhw: However, if you really want to believe that he invented the system but did NOT create 99% worth of mistakes, you need look no further than my third explanation: he wanted and therefore designed a free-for-all (with the option of dabbling if he felt like it). No mistakes, no failed experiments. Total and endlessly fascinating success, as befits an all-powerful God.

Back you go to a humanized God who gives up full control so He can go blameless for the known failures. A real God is always in full control.

Permian mass extinction

DAVID: I'm simply taking the known history of evolution and stating God created it.

dhw: As above, you are interpreting the known history in a way that makes your God look like an incompetent fool […]

DAVID: God chose the method of creation you criticize.

dhw: You claim that God chose the goal and method you have imposed on him: to create us by first making countless mistakes and conducting experiments, 99% of which were failures, as he knew they would be. And, unsurprisingly, you have no idea why he would have chosen such a method. Maybe he didn’t.

So now you are a mind reader for God. God made the history we are debating. Stop trying to change it to fit your preconceived prejudices for God's thinking. Why 'preconceived'? Constantly repeated as if engraved in stone. Reminds me of your objections to free will as you cannot shake loose of previous prejudices.