More miscellany Parts One & Two (Evolution)

by dhw, Tuesday, September 24, 2024, 12:21 (58 days ago) @ David Turell

Earthworm DNA is weird

dhw: Common sense suggests to me that just as bacteria are able to edit their own DNA in response to new conditions, the worm did the same.

DAVID: Your sense is not common, or the experts would not be puzzled.

dhw: They suspect that this is the case, and I have no idea why you are so resolutely opposed to it. […]

DAVID: Only minor adaptations are allowed!.

dhw: Your usual assumption that your opinion should be regarded as fact.

DAVID: […] It is a FACT we only see minor adaptations within species at this time.

Correct. That is why we can only theorize about the past. It is not a fact that your God – presumably anticipating Shapiro – added an 11th commandment to the effect that cells shall not be allowed to design anything but minor adaptations.

The brain: profound changes in pregnancy

dhw: We know that all kinds of experiences result in brain changes, so it’s hardly surprising that the arrival of a new body inside the mother’s body would do the same. But the changes are not preparation for a future event – they are responses to an on-going present event […] . If you must bring in your usual swipe at Darwin (though I agree that such processes are not by chance), then I will bring in my usual reference to Shapiro: here we have a prime example of cell communities responding intelligently to new conditions.[…]

DAVID: Or were designed to do it.

dhw: My point is that the cells are intelligent, and I have always allowed for the theory that their intelligence was designed by your God, if he exists.

DAVID: Thank you.

No need to thank me. I am an agnostic and have always added this proviso.

Ant intelligence: blocking pathogens
By controlling entrances and layout

QUOTE:bbb"Group living is generally thought to increase the risk of disease, and this threat is particularly pronounced in social insects because of their low genetic diversity and frequent social interactions, factors which help disease to spread. Because of this, when faced with disease, “their strategies are typically targeted at protecting the group as a whole, rather than focusing on the individual,” says Stockmaier. (David’s bold)

DAVID: note my bold. Can ants recognize that concept of group protection? I doubt it and feel they were instructed by design.

dhw: What a measly, curmudgeonly response! At least you had the good grace to give this article the heading “Ant intelligence”. Why must you always doubt whether our fellow creatures are capable of inventing their own strategies for survival? This is what Shapiro calls “large organisms chauvinism” at its very worst!

DAVID: Keep championing for Ant intelligence, because I will always present new views of what ants can do. Previously I have shown that individual ants are automatons with specific actions when required. The overall appearance is colony intelligence. The source of that intelligence is what we debate.

Automatons being “instructed by design” is the very opposite of having autonomous intelligence to do the designing themselves. That is what we debate. As above, I have always accepted that if God exists, he would be the source or designer of autonomous intelligence.

Disordered proteins (and glue your predator)

DAVID: Like the previous entry this demonstrates how close to chaos are the functioning proteins in every cell. The only conclusion I can reach is that this is the only way life can exist. It is an error prone system, which gives rise to dhw's theodicy complaints about God: God should have developed life without these problems. He didn't because He knew this had to be the only way to create life.

As always under “theodicy”, you try to confine the whole subject to the role of cells and their mistakes, desperately avoiding all the forms of evil for which you yourself blame your God (natural disasters, murderous bacteria and viruses, murderous humans). See the evolution thread.

DNA hunts pathogens

DAVID: how can a complex system like this develop? Can an evolutionary system based on chance mutations achieve it? I strongly doubt it. It had to be designed. What is amazing is how many different ways the immune system protects us.

The cell communities of the immune system change step by step as they defend themselves against new pathogens. But of course they don’t always succeed. The dispute between you and me is not over the theory of chance mutations, but over your insistence that your God – if he exists - is dabbling every inch of the way, as opposed to the possibility that he may have given the cells themselves the ability to design their defences. This “free-for-all” would explain why – if your God exists – it is the cells that may prove inefficient, and not your God. But for some reason, you cannot accept that possibility.

Geoglyphs in Peru

DAVID: If you just see these words, you are missing the fun. The pictures are amazing.

They certainly are. It’s hard to tell whether they’re meant to be sheer fun or they have some hidden meaning. Obviously the experts are baffled too. Lovely exhibition! Thank you.