More miscellany Parts One & Two (Evolution)

by dhw, Wednesday, August 28, 2024, 11:05 (85 days ago) @ David Turell

The universe

dhw: The universe we know of consists of billions of galaxies which – as far as we know - are not finely tuned for life. That is one of the problems for us agnostics. The atheist would say the greater the number of heavenly bodies, the greater the odds in favour of a chance beginning.

DAVID: The universe is fine-tuned, which means EVERY galaxy is!

dhw: We don’t even know the whole universe, and we haven’t even explored all those parts of the universe that we do know. Unless every galaxy contains life, how can you claim that every galaxy is fine-tuned for life? Please stop making authoritative statements out of your wishes.

DAVID: Subdue your wishes. The universe is defined as fine-tuned everywhere from the Big Bang producing physical constants (at least 18+ of them).

How can anyone define the universe in terms of “everywhere” being “fine-tuned for life” when the general consensus is that about 95% of the universe is unknown to us?

Our heart differs from great apes

QUOTE: Our research suggests that the human heart has adapted to support our upright stance, movement and larger brain.

DAVID: we evolved away from other mammals because of our unusual mobility and exercise capacity.

dhw: Yes, it seems to be a clear case of a cell community (organ) adapting to new conditions.

DAVID: Yes, the heart may have created the adaptation.

dhw: Thank you. As before, you are edging closer to an acceptance that Shapiro’s theory is at least a possible explanation for many of the developments throughout evolution.

DAVID: Why do you constantly invoke Shapiro's theory, with its simple basis that bacteria edit their own DNA?

Please stop pretending that Shapiro’s theory is based solely on his knowledge of bacteria. You yourself have already quoted numerous websites that support the concept of intelligent cells in all forms of life. Why do you constantly invoke the theory that there is an unknowable, supernatural, sourceless being who designed life imperfectly and inefficiently for the sole purpose of producing us, and who may have human attributes but can’t have human attributes, and is all-good but is to blame for all the evils that have not been created by humans?

Your prejudice is illustrated by the next entry:

A viral bacterial defense mechanism

DAVID: Bacteria are their own defense inventors. As free-living single cells, they must have these abilities to survive. When multicellular organism appeared, a special group of cells became the immunity system and cells lost the self-editing capacity.

How do you know? You have always agreed that cellular activities LOOK intelligent (which = an autonomous self-editing capacity), but you just happen to know that although God gave this to single cells, he took it away from them when they formed communities. Please stop expressing your opinions as statements of fact.

The vagus nerve

QUOTE: "The supreme organ gives most people a vivid sensory perception of the world. […]How is this crucial brain-body connection orchestrated? The answer involves the very unusual vagus nerve."

dhw: Just in case anyone should get a wrong impression, it’s not just people who have a brain and a vagus nerve. All our fellow animals have the same mechanisms.

DAVID: […] After seeing this arrangement can one doubt design?

dhw: As always, many thanks for yet another fascinating insight into the complexities of living things. And I agree: they can only be there by design. The wide open questions remain: what did the designing (your God? The cells themselves?) and what designed the designer(s)?

DAVID: The designer is just IS, no designer required.

Yes, that is the equivalent of an atheistic response that life just happened, no designer required. Pots and kettles.