Return to David's theory of evolution PARTS 1 & 2 (Evolution)

by David Turell , Wednesday, August 03, 2022, 17:35 (622 days ago) @ dhw

dhw: You simply go on refusing to accept the obvious truths which you summed up yourself, and which you confirm every time I repeat the quotes: “The current bush of food is NOW for humans NOW. There were smaller bushes in the PAST for PAST forms”, and “extinct life has no role in current time.” If God’s one and only purpose was to create humans plus their food, why according to you did he individually design all the life forms and ecosystems that had no connection with humans plus our food, as an “absolute requirement” in preparation for us and our food? You agree that you don’t know why. Your theory “makes sense only to God.” So please stop contradicting yourself so that we can put an end to this constant repetition.

I have never contradicted myself. All those quotes are accurate and make perfect sense to me. Past is past and present is present in the continuity of evolution. God's choice to evolve rather than directly create is obvious. I cannot know why He chose that path nor know as you ask below why He wished to create us.

dhw: I asked what you thought was your God’s “primary purpose" in creating humans.

DAVID: We are here so He wanted to create us. His obvious purpose must include that we will recognize His existence. Other purposes are all guesswork.

dhw: Once upon a time, you were also sure that he enjoyed creating, and watched his creations with interest. Now apparently his obvious purpose – as bolded above – must include our recognition of him, but we don’t know if he wanted recognition. We don’t know anything, and your certainty that he had no self-interest in creating life contradicts your past certainties, and has no greater validity than any other guesses about his nature.

I still agree with all of the reasons you list as reasonable guesses, but the nuance that
I use of 'self-interest' you misunderstand. God creates what He wishes to create purposely, simply to create. He undoubtedly likes to create, or He wouldn't. But He doesn't do all of this to provide entertainment for Him. God is above that need. In creating our mental capacities, God would certainly expect we would recognize Him, but He didn't need us to do that as some necessary form of self-gratification. God does not have human neediness. Please recognize the nuances!

De novo forms

QUOTE: "'The ancient, common origin of all these plate-like structures [in arthropods] suggests the gene networks that pattern these structures are very evolvable and plastic. They are capable of generating an awesome amount of diversity," Bruce says." (dhw's bold)

dhw: I see this statement as 100% compatible with the theory that as conditions have changed, cells/cell communities have used their evolvable plasticity to cope with or exploit them, thus generating the enormous diversity of species that characterizes the past and present history of life on Earth.

Again, simple cells can design for the future with 'evolvable plasticity', a new unproven, not factual concept..

DAVID: the other alternative from this strained Darwinian approach is that this looks just like a designed process. The future changes carefully built into the beginning.

dhw: Why “strained”? The evolvability and plasticity of cells must have been built into their original form, or evolution would never have taken place! Whether God designed the first cells or not is one question. The other is how cells are able to use this flexibility. Your statement above suggests that your God preprogrammed those first cells with every life form etc. that has ever existed (you seem to have dispensed with dabbling) – according to you, inexplicably including all those that had no connection with sapiens plus food. I prefer the theory that they used their perhaps God-given intelligence to do their own designing.

DAVID: I know your preferences.

dhw: And you continue to promote your own theories, which are self-contradictory and apparently comprehensible only to your God.

You will never recognize I accept what God has created for His own unknown reasons, without having to know the reasons.