Return to David's theory of evolution (Evolution)

by dhw, Wednesday, January 18, 2023, 12:19 (464 days ago) @ David Turell

DAVID: […] It is clear an all-powerful God does not mean He has to have, or does have, tight control over every molecule or active system. He can design whatever is required by the circumstances.

dhw: If circumstances dictate what he designs, and in order to fulfil his purpose he has to make lots of mistakes, how can you say he is all-powerful?

DAVID: We are here aren't we? In His all-powerful state He chose to evolve us, without full control of environments (snowball Earths!!!).

How can your God be all-powerful if he depends on chance to provide the correct environment, and keeps making mistakes and conducting experiments that fail? None of my alternative versions deny that we are here, and none of them involve a 99% failure rate. Even my experimentation theory, which you have now adopted, avoids such denigration of his powers.

dhw: […] God’s talent for adapting his designs to whatever conditions chance imposes on him does not fit in with an all-powerful God having only one purpose and knowing exactly how to achieve it. However, it does fit in perfectly with the concept of a God who enjoys creating and has new ideas as he goes along.

DAVID: That invented 'God' does not fit this debate. Totally humanized, not knowing He can do as He wishes to achieve set goals. Only humans change their minds' goals.

No change of goal here, which is enjoyment of creation and discovery. It fits the history of life as we know it, and as for “totally humanized”, here once again is the question you keep dodging:

dhw: why do you think a God who makes countless mistakes, conducts countless failed experiments, makes wrong choices and is responsible for a complete mess before at last he is lucky enough to be offered the right conditions and survivors to fulfil his one and only purpose, is less “human” than a God who gets what he wants without making any mistakes at all – as in my three alternative theories?

DAVID: Not DODGED!!! See above: "Still the same failure to see God is so powerful, He can achieve a goal without total controls in place."

Why is it less “human” to achieve a goal despite lack of control of conditions, and despite countless mess-ups, mistakes and failed experiments, than it is to achieve a goal without making any mistakes or conducting any failed experiments?

Life transformed early Earth

dhw: I’m not “derisive” about the obvious facts that (a) humans need food, and (b) humans could not exist unless conditions enabled them to exist. I’m derisive about a theory which has an all-powerful God who depends on chance to provide suitable conditions, and who does not have the power to fulfil his sole purpose without countless mistakes and failed experiments.

DAVID: Still the same failure to see God is so powerful, He can achieve a goal without total controls in place.
And:
DAVID: God chose to evolve us, not worried about lack of total control.

What a wonderful temperament your God has: he’s not worried about his inability to provide the right environment for his one and only goal, and he’s not worried about all his mistakes and failed experiments. And David Turell has reassured him that he is all-powerful, but he doesn’t need to be all-powerful, and making mistakes is god-like, whereas not making mistakes is unacceptably human. (NB to forestall one of your stock replies: this is not a criticism of God but of your increasingly “human” and fallible version of God.)