Return to David's theory of evolution and theodicy (Evolution)

by dhw, Wednesday, August 09, 2023, 11:25 (262 days ago) @ David Turell

dhw: How can he possibly enjoy it [creating] without feeling any enjoyment himself? And why would he create if he didn’t want to?

DAVID: God is selfless, not requiring human needs.

dhw: You have simply ignored my comment about “needs” and the question I have asked you, and repeated your mantra as if you were an authority on the nature of God. You do not know any more than I do about your possible God, so why do you keep dodging even your own statements about his “human” attributes?

DAVID: His attributes are never dodged. You demand repeating. Comparisons to God are always allegorical. I do not know more about God than you, as you note. But I know the answers theologians prefer and have offered them.

Enjoyment means enjoyment. How can this be an “allegory”? You agree that your God enjoys creating and is interested in his creations, but the moment I suggest that enjoyment and interest might constitute a purpose, you pretend that this would make him "needy". I know you prefer to stick to the answers you prefer to stick to, but don’t blame the theologians for the illogicalities of your theories, and please don’t expect me to believe that they know more than you or I do about a God who is not known by anybody. And please answer the now bolded questions at the head of this post.

dhw: Your theoretical, all-knowing God knew in advance that by creating people and bacteria he was creating war, murder, rape, as well as countless diseases and other forms of suffering. Theodicy asks how his creation of evil can be equated with the theory that God is all-good. Your answer is once more to put on your blinkers and pretend evil is too minor to even think about.

DAVID: You ignore the needed good and concentrate on the side effects. Free will allows people to be evil. Necessary free-living bacteria cannot be controlled by God to only do good.
And under “Vaginal birth”:
DAVID: we have to have useful bacteria despite the bad side effects.

Your attribute 4: God is Omnipotent – He is All Powerful.
Your attribute 5: God is Omniscient – He is All-Knowing.
Your attribute 7: God is wise – He is full of perfect, Unchanging Wisdom
(DAVID: This is religious teaching which I accept.)

So your all-knowing God knew in advance that his creations would produce the evils listed above, and in his perfect wisdom he must have wanted the evil “allowed” by free will, and despite his omnipotence he had no control over the evils committed by bacteria. Is this what your theologians tell you?

dhw: why do you think he wanted to present us with a challenge?

DAVID: We have the brain He gave us to answer/solve challenges. They make life more interesting.

For whom? Do you truly believe that God thought that the suffering caused by war, murder, rape, famine, flood, crippling and fatal diseases etc. would make life more interesting for us? All this for our benefit? Or perish the thought, more interesting for him? I know your answer: don’t even think about all this. That’s how to solve the problem of theodicy!

Parasites can produce good outcomes

DAVID: All living organisms have freedom of action which means God cannot control their activities which can be bad for us.

So your new solution to the problem of theodicy is that your God created a free-for-all. But since he is omnipotent, we can only assume that a free-for-all is what he wanted. And if a free-for-all explains the existence of evil, why would it not also explain the history of evolution itself? You simply cannot understand why your God would design 99 out of 100 organisms that had no connection with what you believe to have been his one and only purpose (sapiens plus food). Maybe he didn’t design them all, and that was not his purpose. In his omnipotence, and with his decision to create “freedom of action”, perhaps he also decided to create freedom of speciation (though he could dabble if he wanted to). After all,
ATTRIBUTE 3: God is Self-Sufficient – He Has No Needs.
He doesn’t need us, so why would he bother to create us, let alone the other 99% that had no connection with us? And one more question: why do you think he bothered to create life in the first place?