Return to David's theory of evolution (Evolution)

by David Turell , Monday, December 05, 2022, 19:00 (717 days ago) @ dhw

DAVID: I've told you to recognize God created everything, and if so, God felt everything was required to be produced before arriving at humans. All of the odd doings you pick on creates the giant ecosystem that barely feeds us eight billion now. It was all connected with His goal.

dhw: You cannot tell me to “recognize” something just because you believe it! I emphatically do not recognize that your God (if he exists) would have individually designed every innovation (species), lifestyle (e.g. bird migration), strategy (the opossum playing dead), home (weaverbird’s nest, ant city) etc.[…].

I wish you would respect that the issue before us is a theoretical God, whom I accept. Under that approach I have every right to assume that what is here in reality represents God's wishes and accomplished works.

dhw: And I cannot recognize your claim that all the dead ends were required for the design of us and our food. And as you yourself have repeatedly agreed, all the extinct, dead-end “odd doings” of the PAST have nothing to do with the giant ecosystem of the PRESENT.

What I said was past ecosystems in the past fed life in the past and current ecosystems feeds life now, and were evolved from the past systems. Stop distorting!!!

Reading God’s mind

DAVID: No, my speculations are Mine, not gospel. And gospel is group think as to what should be published, human best guesses. Just as His possible personal emotions and motives are best guesses.

dhw: So why did you suddenly decide we must discuss the God described in the Bible?

We must start somewhere, and the God generally presented is all-powerful, all-everything else

DAVID: We do discuss the concept of all-powerful but end up with my type and your type, with no agreement between us. My all-powerful is direct, certain, and has a clear view of all desired endpoints to his actions. End points are planned, because every evolutionary process requires them, yes or no!

dhw: I‘m not sure why you have suddenly introduced end points, when the dispute is over the relevance of all the dead ends to your God’s single purpose. An end point is the completion of a process. I don’t know what you mean by every evolutionary process requires completion. Do human-made evolutions like political and philosophical and educational systems, architecture, the arts require completion? My answer is no. They have always been ongoing. As for types of God, I remain open-minded. I test each of your imposed “humanizing” attributes against the history of life and your own observations of it, and I find that if his “clear view” of his one and only purpose is us and our food, the creation of-dead end failures is the opposite of “direct”.

I wish you would respect that the issue before us is a theoretical God, whom I accept. Under that approach I have every right to assume that what is here in reality represents God's wishes and accomplished works. I used 'direct' in the sense of His personality, not something 'speedy'

DAVID: Experimentation or changing his mind in mid-stream is not my all-powerful God. By definition He can't be that way, unlike your weird, weak God.

dhw: You agreed to experimentation when you insisted that “all evolutions advance from failed experiments”. If we take the example of the extinction of the dinosaurs, “changing his mind in midstream” could denote the end of “a failed experiment” (they would not lead to us), or the arrival of new ideas, which eventually might lead to us. Your own theory is that apart from the tiny minority of surviving dinosaurs (birds), the rest were dead ends that had no connection with us and our food and were therefore required for the production of us and our food, because all evolutions require failed dead ends. You don’t find that “weird”?

You are still using your distorted view of any evolutionary process. Try this:

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/evolution

"Evolution is the process by which the physical characteristics of types of creatures change over time, new types of creatures develop, and others disappear."

Note my bold things disappear!!! They have to go to make way for the improved models.