Return to David's theory of evolution and theodicy (Evolution)

by dhw, Tuesday, August 08, 2023, 11:40 (471 days ago) @ dhw

DAVID: Humans act to produce enjoyment for themselves. My God does not need self-enjoyment from His creations.
And later:
He creates without a smidgen of self-interest or self-entertainment.

dhw: Why do you keep inserting the word “need”, which suggests some sort of inadequacy? If you enjoy a good meal, a Beethoven symphony, or a nice chat with your wife, and I enjoy writing a poem or play, does that mean we’re “needy”? It’s you who said he enjoys creating. How can he possibly enjoy it without feeling any enjoyment himself? And why would he create if he didn't want to do so?

DAVID: God is selfless, not requiring human needs.

You have simply ignored my comment about “needs” and the question I have asked you, and repeated your mantra as if you were an authority on the nature of God. You do not know any more than I do about your possible God, so why do you keep dodging even your own statements about his “human” attributes?

dhw: […] this reference concerned the fact that the unexpected is always more interesting that the expected […] – hence the argument for an unpredictable free-for-all evolution, which would be far more interesting for God than a predictable Garden of Eden which you said would bore him.

DAVID: It would bore you also.

dhw: Nice to see you agreeing with yourself that he would be bored, like me. Next perhaps you will find yourself agreeing that he might logically have designed the “challenge” in order to prevent himself from being bored, though, according to you, he would not relieve his boredom out of the desire to relieve his boredom.

DAVID: To repeat: God is selfless. He does not need our personal requirements for entertainments.

Same dodge as above. You agree that he would be bored, and then you put your blinkers back on.

dhw: Theodicy asks how an all-good God can create evil. Your answer is that we shouldn’t bother to think about the evil.

DAVID: Evil comes from the good: free will is good but creates evil people. Most bacteria do a required good as in our intestinal microbiome. Our cells split trillions of times a day perfectly, but a bad split brings cancer, despite exiting editing mechanisms.

Free will does not “create evil people”! Your theoretical, all-knowing God knew in advance that by creating people and bacteria he was creating war, murder, rape, as well as countless diseases and other forms of suffering. Theodicy asks how his creation of evil can be equated with the theory that God is all-good. Your answer is once more to put on your blinkers and pretend evil is too minor to even think about.

DAVID: Would you prefer to live in the Garden of Eden? God gave us the brain to handle the challenges He expected.

dhw: Of course I would prefer to live in a Garden of Eden, where people did not have to suffer the dreadful consequences of war, disease, flood, famine, murder, rape etc., which your all-knowing God apparently foresaw when he designed all the agents of such suffering. I’m incredibly lucky to have lived a life largely untouched by these evils, and have been free to enjoy all the good wonders. Now please answer the above question: why do you think he wanted to present us with a challenge?

DAVID: Your own proportionality of a good life is the tale for most folks. The evil you see is the secondhand results of the required good.

Even if it was true that most folks are untouched by the evils I have described (a highly questionable statement in itself), there is nothing “secondhand” about a God who knows in advance precisely what evil he is creating. Take off your blinkers, and please explain how an all-good, first-cause God who created our world and our life out of himself can possibly KNOW what evil is and can then go ahead and create it. And please answer the now bolded question above.

Parasites can produce good outcomes

DAVID: a human might think all parasitism is bad, but this study shows the good side. This is a lesson is what God has given us, a mix of good necessary things that can have bad aspects. Theodicy is a study of that aspect of what is required for this system of life.

So God created some good parasites and some bad parasites, and that means we can ignore the bad parasites. Theodicy is NOT a study of what is required for life! Theodicy is the “study” of how one can reconcile the concept of an all-good, all-powerful, all-knowing God with the existence of evil. Stop dodging.