Return to David's theory of evolution (Evolution)

by David Turell , Sunday, January 29, 2023, 17:48 (662 days ago) @ dhw

DAVID: 99% failure is part of our evolutionary system, as Raup states. Your statement about luck is totally inconsistent. No luck is involved if God can design for any set of requirements.

And under “body heat”

DAVID: An all-powerful God does not need any 'lucky' circumstances. He can design for/around any conditions present.

dhw: Something is a failure if it doesn’t achieve its purpose. In your theory, your God’s sole purpose was to design us and our food, and so because 99% of his experiments had nothing to do with us and our food, you say his experiments were mistakes/failures. However, if his purpose was to enjoy creating an ever changing world, and an ever changing world is what he created, then none of what he created was a mistake or a failure. As for luck, if he did not control environmental conditions but could only design what those conditions required, he had to wait for luck to provide him with the right conditions. And if luck determined which organisms survived or didn’t survive, he needed luck to provide him with organisms which he could develop into us and our food. In both cases, according to you, he kept on designing organisms which did not lead to us and our food, and these 99% of his creations were what you call his mistakes and failed experiments. That does not make him all-powerful.

You totally dismiss the concept that God does whatever He wants and can design to fit exactly how He wishes to proceed, in this issue, to a final human species. History shows that happened despite your confusion in how to think about it. Just look at extremophiles to make the point. Life is everywhere in every set of conditions.

dhw: The species which disappeared did not “allow” him to design the next steps. You can’t develop a life form that doesn’t exist! As you have agreed, it is the 1% of life forms that evolved into us and our food. And it is you who tell us that the other 99% were mistakes/failures.

I have used the terms 'mistakes/failures' to make the same point you made years ago that evolution is an inefficient way to create humans. God used it and succeeded. This doesn't reduce God's powers as you try to imply.

DAVID: Failure equals non-survival, which is necessary for evolution to advance under God's designs.

dhw: Failure does not equal non-survival! Failure = not achieving one’s purpose! If your God WANTED an ever changing world in which species came and went (went = failed to survive), there were no mistakes or failures by God.

Again you bring us a weak God without purpose to create humans, as the driving force.

dhw: You doubted if there was any support for my theory. There is. How much support is there for your theory that your God kept making mistakes and conducting failed experiments in pursuit of his one and only goal? But you are absolutely right that an all-powerful God would not need special conditions, which is why your version of God, who has no control over conditions and depends on luck to provide the right ones, cannot be called all-powerful. Your theory makes nonsense of the term all-powerful, as does your belief that 99% of his work comprised failures and mistakes, no matter how hard you try to wriggle round your God’s acknowledged “responsibility for the mess”.

As you describe my theory, by emphasizing the failed dead ends, how did God manage to achieve our appearance on the scene? Again, you bring up 'luck'. No luck required. I'll repeat: God can design organisms for any set of conditions, because He is all-powerful.

DAVID: I've previously made the point that perhaps evolution was the only available method that would work. And another rephrase is necessary: God used a system that produced mistakes. God did not make any mistakes, Himself.

dhw: Your all-powerful God apparently did not have the power to invent a system that would work without mistakes and failures. You have acknowledged that he was “responsible” for the mess, but now you are saying that a God who designed a system that makes mistakes is not responsible for the mistakes. If the house that you designed fell down because the design was faulty, you would blame the design and not yourself.

Back to the issue of why use evolution as the method of creation? That is what God did. He had success with it. Our brain, the most complex mechanism in the universe. The possible answers: a choice among methods, the only method that works. Take your choice. God chose His way for His unknown reasons.