Return to David's theory of evolution (Evolution)

by dhw, Sunday, December 18, 2022, 13:25 (493 days ago) @ David Turell

dhw: If your God’s ONLY purpose was us plus food, according to YOU, his form of evolution is a total mess.

DAVID: Your definition of God's evolution is the hole in the doughnut. Evolution must destroy to advance to more adapted, more complex forms. 99% of forms are gone, and have to be.

dhw: All of a sudden, evolution is running evolution. I thought your God was in charge. Anyway, 99% of the forms he has deliberately designed must be destroyed, so that he can design the more adapted, more complex forms which he will create out of those that have NOT been destroyed.

DAVID: We have agreed 99% disappeared in evolution. It is a messy process compared to direct creation. We agree on that also.

And your God is responsible for the mess. You have agreed that if his one and only aim was to design us plus food, the mess can be explained by the theory that he was experimenting and specially designing mistakes, wrong choices and failures as he did so. Why are you prolonging the agony?

dhw: [quoting David] “He is responsible for all the messy aspects of evolution. Yes, He is. The whole of evolution is a messy process of successes and failures. “ If he is responsible for the mess, then he is responsible for the mess!

DAVID: Given a God-created history of evolution, we must conclude God chose to evolve us.

According to you, he also chose to evolve (by which you mean design) every other creature as well, including the 99% of dead ends, which were his failed experiments, leading to the mess he created. What’s the problem?

DAVID: You keep forgetting the 'mistakes' were part of ecosystems no longer needed for food. The need for constant food supply gets lost in all your distorted objections. Evolution can be characterized as new forms and their food supply.

He designed the 99% of dead ends including their food, and they were all “failed experiments” which had nothing to do with the aim of his experiments, which was to design us and our food. Hence the mess for which you make him responsible. What’s the problem?

DAVID: God does not experiment for the sake of finding a new way. He knows exactly where He is going and how to get there. There must be a food-supplying ecosystem at all times and when no long necessary those organisms fade away along with the top predators.

dhw: You don’t need to experiment if you already know exactly where you are going and how to get there! You are making nonsense of language. And you know it, because you tell us that your God’s evolution is a mess of mistakes, wrong choices, and FAILED EXPERIMENTS!

DAVID: Evolution must involve failed experiments, or evolution does not evolve!!! Please go back to your words:
"dhw: Again, why do you keep talking about the way evolution works? According to you, God controls evolution, so this is the way God works!"

DAVID: God controls evolution!!! He produced what you complain about. And He did it with the exact purpose of producing humans. That is the nub of Adler's proof of God. I'm not objecting to God's choice when I admit evolution is a messy way to create. As you have agreed, an all-powerful God can do whatever He wishes.

If your all-powerful God exists, and if – as you believe (it is not an historical fact) – his one and only purpose was to produce humans, and if, as you believe, he designed all species and 99% of the species he designed (including the foods they ate) were “failed experiments” (your term), then his method of achieving his goal was a mess. You are not objecting to the experimentation theory, which in your view makes God’s work a mess, so what’s the problem?