Return to David's theory of evolution PART 1 (Evolution)

by dhw, Thursday, June 09, 2022, 08:22 (679 days ago) @ David Turell

DAVID: My statements mean I accept the history as God's direct work. He is the author/creator of the history. The fact that you do not accept that is why my theories confuse you. We are discussing at two different levels. Remember I do not accept how you think about God in any way.

You keep on ignoring my response to this! If God exists, we would both accept that the history is his work, but the only history we know is 1) countless numbers of life forms and econiches, most of which are extinct and had no connection with humans and our econiches, 2) we and our econiches are the last so far, and 3) we evolved in stages. History does not show that a) we plus our food were your God’s only purpose, b) that he individually designed every species and econiche, or c) that he did so because every one of them was an “absolute requirement” in preparation for us humans. Those are your theories, you can’t explain the logic behind them, and you tell me to ask God for an explanation.

DAVID: You simply will not accept my view that God did all of this.

Did all of what? I do not accept that an all-powerful God who apparently has only one purpose (to design us and our food) would first of all individually design countless life forms and foods that had no connection with us!

DAVID: Instead you want me to analyze this the way you do, from your humaized God point of view, which I do not accept.

Your non-acceptance of “human thought patterns and emotions” in a God who you think probably has human thought patterns and emotions has nothing whatsoever to do with the total illogicality of your combined theories, which “make sense only to God”. Attacking my alternatives does not make your own illogical theories logical.

DAVID: God can do it any way He wishes for His own unknown reasons.

Agreed. But you keep insisting that “it” = his only purpose (to design humans plus our food), and he does “it” by designing countless life forms that have no connection with humans plus our food. You can find no reason why he should fulfil such a purpose in such a way, but you kid yourself that this is “history”. It’s not. It is an illogical interpretation of history for which you can find no explanation.

The rise of the mammals

DAVID: from the standpoint of design, the story fits perfectly. Their waiting in the wings sounds exactly liike pre-planning. What is the driving force that chance mutations could create? IT doen't exist. Only a desinging mind could direct mutations to produce a big-brained human.

dhw: We long ago dismissed the concept of random mutations as the “driving force” [see final comment below], and according to you, only a designing mind could produce every species that ever existed. And so from the standpoint of design, the story sounds exactly like lack of planning. If your all-powerful God’s intention right from the start was to design humans (plus food), what was the point of him specially designing dinosaurs and then wiping them all out?

DAVID: Again, weird humanized analysis. Dinosaurs were a step along the way to more complexity. Birds arrived out of them as well as lizzard and other forms, all of which contribute to the mutifacited ecosystems that provide food for all. I accept that each step fits into God's preconceived plan for evolution.

So your all-powerful God could not have designed his one and only goal of humans and our food if he hadn’t designed the brontosaurus plus umpteen millions of other life forms that had no connection with us but were an absolute requirement for his individual design of us and our food. And I should ask God to explain your theory, because - not surprisingly - you can’t.

New extremophiles

DAVID: My view is if life started in the Hadean period of chaos on early Earth, it had to have very tough aspects of its resistence to adversity. That life is here is a miracle I would attribute to a designing God.

dhw: I agree with most of this, and I certainly can’t discount God as the designer of the original cells. But your theory that all these life forms were “absolute requirements” for humans? Nah, I can’t buy that.

DAVID: What will it take to open up the cement strangling your concepts of evoution?

dhw: I have offered several theistic concepts of evolution, each of which fits in logically with the history of life as we know it. You have offered one, which is so illogical that according to you it “makes sense only to God”. Please ask yourself the question you have asked me.

Harmful mutations

DAVID: dhw and I long ago threw out chance mutations as causes of evolution. That leaves us with not knowing how speciation occurs. I rely on God. dhw has his own various theories.

I’ve only reproduced this because it marks one of the rare subjects on which we agree!