Return to David's theory of evolution and theodicy (Evolution)

by David Turell , Tuesday, August 08, 2023, 18:35 (471 days ago) @ dhw

DAVID: God is selfless, not requiring human needs.

dhw: You have simply ignored my comment about “needs” and the question I have asked you, and repeated your mantra as if you were an authority on the nature of God. You do not know any more than I do about your possible God, so why do you keep dodging even your own statements about his “human” attributes?

His attributes are never dodged. You demand repeating. Comparisons to God are always allegorical. I do not know more about God than you, as you note. But I know the answers theologians prefer and have offered them.

dhw: Theodicy asks how an all-good God can create evil. Your answer is that we shouldn’t bother to think about the evil.

DAVID: Evil comes from the good: free will is good but creates evil people. Most bacteria do a required good as in our intestinal microbiome. Our cells split trillions of times a day perfectly, but a bad split brings cancer, despite exiting editing mechanisms.

dhw: Free will does not “create evil people”! Your theoretical, all-knowing God knew in advance that by creating people and bacteria he was creating war, murder, rape, as well as countless diseases and other forms of suffering. Theodicy asks how his creation of evil can be equated with the theory that God is all-good. Your answer is once more to put on your blinkers and pretend evil is too minor to even think about.

You ignore the needed good and concentrate on the side effects. Free will allows people to be evil. Necessary free-living bacteria cannot be controlled by God to only do good.

DAVID: Would you prefer to live in the Garden of Eden? God gave us the brain to handle the challenges He expected.

dhw: Of course I would prefer to live in a Garden of Eden, where people did not have to suffer the dreadful consequences of war, disease, flood, famine, murder, rape etc., which your all-knowing God apparently foresaw when he designed all the agents of such suffering. I’m incredibly lucky to have lived a life largely untouched by these evils, and have been free to enjoy all the good wonders. Now please answer the above question: why do you think he wanted to present us with a challenge?

DAVID: Your own proportionality of a good life is the tale for most folks. The evil you see is the secondhand results of the required good.

dhw: Even if it was true that most folks are untouched by the evils I have described (a highly questionable statement in itself), there is nothing “secondhand” about a God who knows in advance precisely what evil he is creating. Take off your blinkers, and please explain how an all-good, first-cause God who created our world and our life out of himself can possibly KNOW what evil is and can then go ahead and create it. And please answer the now bolded question above.

We have the brain He gave us to answer/solve challenges. They make life more interesting.

Parasites can produce good outcomes

DAVID: a human might think all parasitism is bad, but this study shows the good side. This is a lesson is what God has given us, a mix of good necessary things that can have bad aspects. Theodicy is a study of that aspect of what is required for this system of life.

dhw: So God created some good parasites and some bad parasites, and that means we can ignore the bad parasites. Theodicy is NOT a study of what is required for life! Theodicy is the “study” of how one can reconcile the concept of an all-good, all-powerful, all-knowing God with the existence of evil. Stop dodging.

No dodge. Having the required necessary good means accepting the bad side effects. Yes, one aspect of theodicy is noting the required good. All living organisms have freedom of action which means God cannot control their activities which can be bad for us.