Return to David's theory of evolution (Evolution)

by David Turell , Monday, January 23, 2023, 16:51 (450 days ago) @ David Turell
edited by David Turell, Monday, January 23, 2023, 17:33

dhw: According to you, your God as first cause CREATED (why “chose”?) a system which forced him into 99% mistakes and failures before achieving his one and only goal (us and our food). And that apparently is “brilliant”. Your interpretation of the history we both have to work with is an insult to a God who, in the same breath, you tell us is all-powerful.

I'll accept God 'created' evolution as His system to eventually produce humans. It is a system with dead ends. It is also the true history we have. Considering God as all-powerful, He had reasons we do not understand. Best way, only way? Doesn't matter. God's powers of design solved all problems for survival. Opposite view to yours

dhw: [...]In two of my alternatives, a) his experiments are successful and he continues to develop them in his quest to create a being like himself (plus food), or (b) he gets new ideas as he goes along. No failures, no bumbling. You dismiss them because you say they humanise him. […] Why is it less “human” to achieve a goal despite lack of control of conditions, and despite countless mess-ups, mistakes and failed experiments, than it is to achieve a goal without making any mistakes or conducting any failed experiments? […][/color]

The red bold makes no sense because it skips over the true history of evolution. My non-human God is exactly opposite your human God who suddenly changes course with 'new ideas'. Please discuss a God who fits history.

DAVID: […] So the dead ends simply were not dead ends?
And:
DAVID: God successfully created us and our necessary ecosystems using a messy system and not in full control of environment.

dhw: Once again you dodge my question. But I will answer yours. It depends which of my theories you are talking about. If his purpose was to create a being like himself, the 99% were dead ends, but they were successes in themselves. God’s attitude would have been: “Yep, I love them thar brontosauruses, but I reckon I can do even better…” New ideas have no dead ends, just an onward flow of inspiration, and they need not be inhibited by a rigidly fixed ending (see below on the creative process). In a free-for-all, there are no dead ends either, because there is no fixed purpose other than the joy of discovery: what amazing things his invention can come up with. Now please answer my bolded question!

Answered above. Now we have your non-purposeful God, just drifting along having fun with no purpose, just creating whatever idea comes along!!!! What God of what religion is that?

DAVID: Purposeful free-for-alls??? Who keeps a purposeful direction in the process? Having new ideas as He goes along is a great description of bumbling!

See above re free-for-alls. Re new ideas, you have no understanding of the creative process. Many artists, composers, writers begin simply with one idea and it is part of the fascinating process to see what this will lead to. (I speak from experience.) Even in your own theory, you have your eternal God suddenly creating this universe and life. Wasn’t that in itself a new idea? You have him then making mistake after mistake. Was every mistake and failure meticulously planned, even though according to you he even had to adjust his creativity to conditions over which he had no control? Now please answer my bolded question.

Answered above. Before the BB God was planning on humans. You don't understand my concept of God.

DAVID: In so doing God created a huge bush of life a our food supply.

dhw: But 99% of the “bushes” he created had no connection with our food supply, and you call them mistakes/failed experiments.

In evolution the past 99% becomes the present food supply.

DAVID: Conclusion: an all-powerful God chose to use this system. We don't know His reasons, but probably it is the best system available, in His judgement.

dhw: You are saying that an all-powerful God chose to invent a system part of which he could not control, and which led him to design 99% of life forms that were mistakes and failures. And this is more godlike than a God who does exactly what he wants to do.

DAVID: God did exactly what He wanted to do, using the method He wanted to use, all decided before He made the universe.

dhw: GOD: “I only wanna create David Turell and his breakfast, so I’m gonna deliberately create millions of useless critters that ain’t got nothin’ to do with him an’ his breakfast, so he can tell the world that all my mistakes an’ failed experiments prove how clever I was ter create him an’ his breakfast.”

(Apologies if that makes him sound like the bumbling fool you take him for.)

Ignored. The past 99% plus the survivors resulted in me and my food. Evolution is a continuous invented process of increasing complexity. Without the 99%, I would still be an amoeba