Return to David's theory of evolution PARTS 1 & 2 (Evolution)

by David Turell , Wednesday, March 30, 2022, 16:19 (967 days ago) @ dhw

DAVID: Your 'logical' explanation is based on your human view of God's works as if He were human, and He certainly is not. We differ widely.

dhw: All of us humans, including you, have a human view of whatever we view. I do not view him “as if he were human”, but like yourself I assume he had a purpose for creating life. And like you, I assume he would have created what he wanted to create. But unlike you, I do not assume that his reasons for creating what he created “make sense only to Himself”.

There is no way we can know God's thoughts. The 'why' behind His creations are our guesses so what He does "makes sense only to Him". His private thoughts!

dhw: It is an exact quote, and it fits in perfectly with your repeated admission that you can’t explain your theory and so I should go and ask God for his reasons.

DAVID: When will you realize I have given you a full explanation of my theory?

dhw: I’ll realize it when you give me one, so this is your chance: if your God’s only purpose was to design humans and our food, why did he design countless extinct life forms and foods that did not lead to humans and our food?

Same constant answer: He chose to evolve us from bacteria, the life He first started. The huge bush are delicately balanced ecosystems to provide food for all. Humans are at the top of the food chain.

DAVID: I never said He doesn't know about our emotions! We don't know if He needs to have feelings comparable to ours.

dhw: I don’t know why you have dragged “need” into your reply. None of us know what he feels – or even if he exists – but you have repeatedly said you think he enjoys creating and is interested in what he creates. So why can’t you agree that this makes for a possible purpose underlying his creativity?

You are blind to the thought that God creating for His enjoyment and interest is simply imposing humans desires upon God as His secondary consideration for the effort. God may simply do it.

God's choice of war over peace

dhw: We have countless examples of peaceful cooperation in this current system, the most obvious one being the harmonious manner in which our own cell communities harmonize with one another most of the time. I gave symbiosis as another example. Do you know of any herbivore that deliberately kills other animals and eats them? I don’t see why you can’t imagine an earthly paradise[…]

DAVID: How do they live at peace? You have simply told us you wish for such a system. Tell us how it works practically. Full description please.

dhw: I have not told you I wish for it! I have asked why you think your all-powerful God chose to design a system which demands warfare for the sake of survival, and I have suggested that your all-powerful God could have created a peaceful system if he had wanted to, in which all life forms cooperate and derive their food from sources that do not have to be killed. What “full description” do you expect?

Still fudging! Tell us how your peaceful biology would work given the energy requirement.

dhw: I quoted Shapiro’s theory that intelligent cells were responsible for evolutionary novelties.

DAVID: Once again you have inflated Shapiro. His proposed theory is taken from self-sufficient free- living bacteria who must have those abilities to adapt to survive. […]

dhw: I don’t know why you continue to belittle him, as if he would have constructed his theory without taking into account the findings of other scientists’ research. But do please tell me why my theistic theory is more “invented” than your own, as summarized above.

DAVID: I don't belittle him. I admire his work, first introduced him to you, and complain about how you misuse his theory.

How do I “misuse” his theory, when it is 100% explicit? He says cells are intelligent beings which create evolutionary novelty?

I fully agree at the simple adaptive level of free-living bacteria. He suggests that it might be a factor in larger steps for evolution. I agree, but I don't use it to claim cells are intelligent innately, as you do as one of your wishful desires about reality.