Return to David's theory of evolution (Evolution)

by dhw, Wednesday, January 10, 2024, 09:14 (108 days ago) @ David Turell

dhw: […] “Did he, in your opinion, “need” to have his work recognized, “need” to be worshipped, “need” to have a relationship with us” – all of which you have posited in the past? Why do you think they are less “needy” and less “human” than the theory that he creates out of enjoyment and interest?

DAVID: More word games. God created what He wished without needing recognition, worship, relationship as driving forces. In the past I have offered God MIGHT have secondarily had thoughts in those regards.

Please stop making these official announcements, as if you knew that your opinions were facts! It’s all MIGHT-bes! Even the existence of God. You suggested that the above might be possible motives for his creation of humans, and I suggest that his enjoyment of creation and interest in his creations, of which you are certain, might be his motive for creating life, including huimans. Why are your might-be’s less “needy” and less “human” than mine?

99.9% v 0.1%
January 2nd:
dhw: Only the 0.1% led to current life forms.
DAVID: We agree.

January 8th/9th
dhw:The 99.9% constitute all the life forms that did not evolve into the extant species. You have agreed. Why are you now trying to disagree?

DAVID: I'm not disagreeing.

dhw: If you are not disagreeing, then please stop telling us that 99.9% of species led to us and our food

DAVID: The 99.9% are the ancestors of the currently living 0.1%.

In one and the same post, you agree and proceed to disagree. Let's try again.
Some experts believe there were about 1000 species of dinosaur. Do you believe that 990 of these led directly to us and current species? You believe your God created all the vertebrates “de novo” during the Cambrian, so according to you not one of today’s vertebrates, including us, could possibly be directly descended from any of the species that existed before the Cambrian. Do you believe that 990 out of 1000 pre-Cambrian species led directly to us and our contemporary species?

Newly found bacterial weapon

DAVID: explain the design you see that keeps you agnostic.

dhw: The complexity of all living things, right down to the individual cell, points to design. Evolution by way of cellular intelligence does not preclude design! Speciation has stopped for the time being – we are going through a period of stasis – and so if you reject Shapiro's theory because there is no evidence, you will have also to reject your own theory of divine pre-preprogramming and dabbling because there is no evidence.

DAVID: Shapiro's theory is subject to real study. God's existence is another form of study. Your comparison fails.

The above does not question God’s existence but questions the theory that your God preprogrammed or dabbled every species, as opposed to possibly inventing intelligent cells to do the job. Since speciation has stopped for the time being, neither theory can be supported by evidence. Your attempt to change the subject has failed.

The immune system

DAVID: You have the ability to go back take comments out of context. The immune system follows DNA instructions to automatically make new antibodies as necessary.

dhw: There is absolutely no context which can nullify your clear statement that “only the immune system has this ‘brain’ that you wish for in other cells.” […][/b]

DAVID: I guess I need to spend more time to be sure I am clear in my answers. I said the immune system is automatic. My cell brain comment was meant to be taken as sarcasm.

Clear answers have become a rarity, as illustrated by all your self-contradictions during discussions on your God’s motives, the 0.1% v 99.9% dispute, crystal ball speciation, and “irreducible complexity”.

Theodicy

DAVID: Note Godel tells us God must be considered as perfect in every aspect. […]

dhw: […] It’s no use you telling me that you’ve read a book which says God is perfect if you can’t respond to arguments that suggest God is not perfect (whatever “perfect” may mean).[…]

DAVID: Faith in God is amazing isn't it. Theodicy is your problem, not mine.

I don’t find faith in God amazing. It’s perfectly understandable. You raised the problem of theodicy in the first place, came up with the daft “solution” that there’s no problem so long as you ignore the evil, agreed to drop the subject, but for some reason decided to raise it again because Godel thinks God is perfect.