Return to David's theory of evolution PARTS 1 & 2 (Evolution)

by dhw, Thursday, April 28, 2022, 12:05 (938 days ago) @ David Turell

dhw: You assume that your God’s sole purpose right from the start was to produce us! I ask why you think your God would create countless solar systems and life forms if he only wanted one solar system and one life form plus food. You can’t answer. So maybe your God did NOT want just us and our food right from the start.

DAVID:Crazy contortion. God obviously modifies or evolves His creations over time. See past discussions I've presented. Why can't He have goals from the beginning? And work toward them?

Of course he would have had goals from the beginning! But according to you, his one and only goal was Planet Earth to house sapiens plus food, and yet according to you he specially designed countless solar systems and countless life forms and foods which even you agree did not lead to sapiens plus food. And although he was perfectly capable of designing species with no precursors, he specially designed stage after stage of hominins and homos before designing us. You have admitted you don’t know why, so why do you go on pretending that it makes sense to you? As for modifying his creations, you are at last beginning to creep inch by inch towards the possibility that he did NOT have everything planned right from the start. This ties in with our discussion on “intervention”, which you called “change of course” and which would support two of my alternatives: experimentation or getting new ideas as he goes along.

DAVID: (transferred from “our rare solar system”) Of course, God is constantly intervening to be sure everything goes according to plan. Remember it fits my contention God is always in tight control and knows exactly what He is doing and where He is headed.

I know your contention, and that is why I’m surprised that you think a God in tight control who knows exactly where he is headed should find it necessary to intervene in order to “change course”. For instance if, as you claim, his one and only goal was to design sapiens plus food, it would make sense that if he found that what he was designing did not lead to that goal, he would change course. Hence the theory of experimentation – e.g. dinosaurs didn’t produce the intelligent life that would admire his work and have a relationship with him, so he got rid of them and tried something else. Perfectly logical.

“Humanization”

DAVID:The history of life fits exactly what God wanted to create. The endpoint of evolution is humans, which therefore is a God purpose.

dhw: If God exists, I have no doubt that the history of life fits exactly what he wanted to create. And since the history reveals countless life forms and econiches that did not lead to humans plus food, it makes no sense to argue that every life form and econiche was preparation for and part of his one and only goal (not “a” but “the” purpose) of designing humans plus food.

DAVID: But please finally recognize, the huge bush not related to producing humans is their food. Without it the current human population would starve.

Of course we current humans would starve without our current bush! But yet again you edit out your theory that every PAST organism and PAST food bush was preparation for us and our food bush, although you agree that the past was for the past, and extinct life has no role in current life.

Biochemical controls

dhw: […] I have made no criticism of the system or of God. On the contrary, I have gone out of my way to emphasize that if God is all-powerful then the system we have must be the system he wanted! Not a system containing errors he did not want and could not control, but a system in which the different cells had the capability of taking their own decisions – i.e. were given the “free will” you have just unwittingly endowed them with.

DAVID: Your usual pipe dreams that either God couldn't do what He wanted which is a perfect system without errors……

dhw: It is you who tell us that he had no choice (despite the fact that he made choices) and “had to” produce this system, and tried to correct the “errors”, which can only mean he didn’t want the “errors”.

DAVID: Of course, He didn't want errors, but this high-speed system is the only one that produces life. An all-knowing God would recognize the best system available and use it.

What do you mean by “available”? You seem to have forgotten your belief that nothing was “available” until your God created it. What is your objection to the proposal that instead of designing a system containing “errors” he did not want and, in some cases, was incapable of correcting, your all-powerful God designed precisely the system he wanted to design. After all, every life form dies, so he must have deliberately built means of death into the system – unless you think death was another of the “errors” he couldn’t avoid.