Return to David's theory of evolution (Evolution)

by David Turell , Wednesday, January 10, 2024, 18:44 (107 days ago) @ dhw

DAVID: More word games. God created what He wished without needing recognition, worship, relationship as driving forces. In the past I have offered God MIGHT have secondarily had thoughts in those regards.

Please stop making these official announcements, as if you knew that your opinions were facts! It’s all MIGHT-bes! Even the existence of God. You suggested that the above might be possible motives for his creation of humans, and I suggest that his enjoyment of creation and interest in his creations, of which you are certain, might be his motive for creating life, including humans. Why are your might-be’s less “needy” and less “human” than mine?

What driving emotional force made God create, if there was one? That is our discussion. My answer for your might-be's is no force. God simply creates with no motives. He has secondary responses.

DAVID: The 99.9% are the ancestors of the currently living 0.1%.

dhw: In one and the same post, you agree and proceed to disagree. Let's try again.
Some experts believe there were about 1000 species of dinosaur. Do you believe that 990 of these led directly to us and current species? You believe your God created all the vertebrates “de novo” during the Cambrian, so according to you not one of today’s vertebrates, including us, could possibly be directly descended from any of the species that existed before the Cambrian. Do you believe that 990 out of 1000 pre-Cambrian species led directly to us and our contemporary species?

Raup dealt with evolution from the Cambrian on. Ediacaran's are our ancestors, 100% dead. Dinosaurs are 100% dead. They might be the ancestors of birds, but that is disputed now. Why do you try to slice up fully departed species into Raup's findings? The 99.9% are the ancestors of the currently living 0.1%, of which we are a tiny portion.

Newly found bacterial weapon

DAVID: explain the design you see that keeps you agnostic.

dhw: The complexity of all living things, right down to the individual cell, points to design. Evolution by way of cellular intelligence does not preclude design! Speciation has stopped for the time being – we are going through a period of stasis – and so if you reject Shapiro's theory because there is no evidence, you will have also to reject your own theory of divine pre-preprogramming and dabbling because there is no evidence.

DAVID: Shapiro's theory is subject to real study. God's existence is another form of study. Your comparison fails.

dhw: The above does not question God’s existence but questions the theory that your God preprogrammed or dabbled every species, as opposed to possibly inventing intelligent cells to do the job. Since speciation has stopped for the time being, neither theory can be supported by evidence. Your attempt to change the subject has failed.

But research into how evolution works is continuing, so I don't understand your negative answer.

The immune system

DAVID: I guess I need to spend more time to be sure I am clear in my answers. I said the immune system is automatic. My cell brain comment was meant to be taken as sarcasm.

dhw: Clear answers have become a rarity, as illustrated by all your self-contradictions during discussions on your God’s motives, the 0.1% v 99.9% dispute, crystal ball speciation, and “irreducible complexity”.

Your math for evolution is confused by slicing and dicing family groups; IC totally confuses you; and you still don't understand the ID view of speciation by a designing mind.

Theodicy

DAVID: Note Godel tells us God must be considered as perfect in every aspect. […]

dhw: […] It’s no use you telling me that you’ve read a book which says God is perfect if you can’t respond to arguments that suggest God is not perfect (whatever “perfect” may mean).[…]

DAVID: Faith in God is amazing isn't it. Theodicy is your problem, not mine.

dhw: I don’t find faith in God amazing. It’s perfectly understandable. You raised the problem of theodicy in the first place, came up with the daft “solution” that there’s no problem so long as you ignore the evil, agreed to drop the subject, but for some reason decided to raise it again because Godel thinks God is perfect.

Godel should be of interest in this website.