Return to David's theory of evolution, purpose & theodicy (Evolution)

by dhw, Friday, September 27, 2024, 11:43 (21 days ago) @ David Turell

Contradictions

DAVID: Having been given guidelines as to how to think about God. I follow them and what I have presented is the result. I'm not preaching it for any group but myself. I see no contradictions in the sort of God I present as purposeful, selfless, and all-everything as in the way Western religions describe Him.

dhw: You present the same God described by Western schools of thought (religions), but no schools think as you do? No contradiction? You offer a theory of evolution which ridicules your perfect God for his imperfect design; you think he probably has human-like attributes but is not human in any way; you think he enjoys creating and may want us to recognize and worship him, but he doesn’t because he’s selfless; your God is benevolent, but he can’t be benevolent as he’s not human in any way, but there is a 50/50 chance that he is benevolent. See above for your equally confused and confusing double standards. You’re right: I know of no school of theological thought as “schizophrenic” as yours.

DAVID: I'll stand by my statement above. All your complaints apply to guess work in previous discussions. A selfless God wants no secondary emotional gains from His activities. He can be benevolent as a non-human. ETC. Non-humans can have human attributes, as my dog. You are inventing distortions as usual.

Your statements vary week by week, as shown above, but you simply gloss over your contradictions. Even our next exchange shows you fighting yourself as if you were fighting me:

DAVID: My non-human God can be compared to my dog in the sense that non-human individuals can logically have human-like attributes without in any way be human.

Precisely.

dhw: […] For instance, your beliefs that your God is benevolent, or might enjoy creating, or might want to be recognized and worshipped, are all human-like attributes but they do not “humanize” him, any more than your dog’s love for you and desire to be loved by you make him a human being.

DAVID: We agree here.

dhw: So please stop all this nonsense about my alternative theories “humanizing” God.

DAVID: You don't recognize your God thinks like a human in His suggestions for actions.

You’ve just agreed that he can think like a human without being a human! What are you arguing about?

99.9% v 0.1%

dhw: […] please tell us why you reject your own pre-Cambrian theory (our ancestors were created “de novo”, so 100% of pre-Cambrian species were non-ancestral), and the dinosaur example (99.43% non-ancestral), and why you were insane when you agreed that we are descended from the 0.1% of survivors and not the 99.9% of the species that became extinct.

DAVID: All of previous life is our ancestors from pre-Cambrian until now.

All of previous life is from pre-Cambrian till now. But according to you, we had no pre-Cambrian ancestors!

DAVID: 'De Novo Cambrians' are a phenotypical view of that event.

You have constantly used the Cambrian “de novo” gap as evidence of your God’s existence: you point out that there are no fossils to indicate any transitional forms that could be considered as our ancestors.

DAVID: As for your bolds, the 99.9% extinct produced the 0.1% surviving, pure Raup dinosaurs be damned. We are part of the lumped surviving.

Yes, we are part of the lumped 0.1% of survivors, and we are NOT descended from the 99.9% extinct, and still you refuse to tell us why you were insane when you agreed.

Theodicy

DAVID: We go round and round as you ae unwilling to accept my reasoning about theodicy issues. No point in continuing to constantly be giving you the same answers I've presented previously. We must accept the style of life we have. There is none other than God could provide.

dhw: We go round and round because you keep repeating different explanations, none of which make sense if your God is all-powerful, all-good and all-knowing. Of course we must accept the existence of evil. Our discussion concerns your God’s nature!

DAVID: I look at God as presenting a challenging form of life. We have the God-given brains for it.

dhw: Now you’ve gone back to the challenge or test theory, which suggests the deliberate creation of evil to see if we could conquer it with our brains. And somehow that is meant to confirm that your God is all-powerful and all-good.

DAVID: Only an all-powerful could create life. Anything evil is a side effect.

dhw: So now you discard the challenge theory, the boredom theory, the fact that you blame God for natural disasters and murderous bugs (not to mention murderous humans), and his reliance on us to cure what he can’t cure….Evil is only a side effect, so let’s ignore it.

DAVID: Not ignore it. Accept it as the only way it can be, as God produced it.

You have now discarded all the theories listed above, and your answer to the question of how an all-good, all-powerful, all-knowing God can produce evil is that we must accept the evil because for some reason life cannot exist without the natural disasters and murderous bugs for which you blame him, or without the evil he knowingly enabled us to commit by giving us free will.