Return to David's theory of evolution (Evolution)

by dhw, Saturday, March 11, 2023, 07:29 (621 days ago) @ David Turell

dhw: 1% of the past evolved into the present.99% consisted of dead ends (your God’s “mistakes” and “failed experiments”) that did NOT evolve into the present!

DAVID: We agree!! 0.1% survival advanced evolution!!

dhw: So will you please stop all this nonsense about evolution advancing through failure to survive!

DAVID: But failure induces the need for improvement with God's new designs.

So does your God create 99% brand new species from scratch? It is the 1% of survivors that he can improve on! Or do you think the mistakes teach him what needs to be improved? No, your God never learns anything, does he? He knows it all in advance, including the fact that he is going to make 99 mistakes for every one success!

dhw: Not “just to create”. To enjoy creating is a possible purpose in itself. What is the purpose of creating 99% mistakes that have nothing to do with what you say is your God’s purpose? Don’t forget your agreement that only the 1% advanced evolution.

DAVID: You forget my position is God chose to evolve us.

You forget that according to you he chose to “evolve” (= design) every organism that ever lived, including the irrelevant 99%. How does this invalidate the possibility that he chose to “evolve” (design) the 99% because he enjoyed creating a vast variety (as opposed to having to make mistakes in order to get what he wanted)?

DAVID: […] Environmental changes are uncontrolled.

dhw: Thank you. And this means he could only design species that could survive under the new conditions, which explains why in your theory 99% were “mistakes” that were irrelevant to his purpose.

DAVID: Daft conclusion. Climate change stressed species with limited adaptability. God limited adaptability as He could step in when new advanced species were required. We are here despite all your objections to the method.

You have stated that their limited adaptability was due to your God’s faulty design. New species then had to fit in with (were limited by) the new conditions which he did not control. This process kept repeating itself: 99% victims of his faulty designs, and 1% survivors. On and on, until he reached the Cambrian.

DAVID: […] GOD CHOSE TO EVOLVE US IN STAGES!!!!

dhw: [According to you] he did not start evolving us in our stages until the Cambrian, when he created our ancestors (plus food) de novo, from scratch, without any predecessors! So all previous organisms were unnecessary.

DAVID: But the advanced biochemistry in the Edicaran had to be accomplished. You always forget two interlocked levels of evolution: biochemical and phenotypical.

There is no logical reason why an all-powerful God should have to create countless species that had no connection with his one and only purpose, when he could simply have waited for the right conditions to develop the species – biochemical and phenotypical – he wanted to develop. So maybe he had a different purpose in creating the irrelevant species. (Why do you keep avoiding the word species?)

Bipedalism

DAVID: Your fanciful just-so story fills a gap in my theory. I have no idea how God does any speciation.

dhw: I’m glad you now consider your design-in-advance theory to be a just-so story. And you seem to have forgotten your two theories concerning your God’s method of speciation: 1) a 3.8-billion-year-old compendium of instructions for every evolutionary change, lifestyle, strategy, natural wonder etc. for the whole history of life, and/or 2) ad hoc dabbling. Darwin proposes random mutations and natural selection. Shapiro proposes cellular intelligence.

DAVID: God speciates by editing the genome. Darwin's ancient propositions are not based in current facts.

dhw: The just-so story was your God operating on our ancestors’ backs and legs BEFORE they left the trees. You have no idea how God does any speciation, but you have two ideas (see 1) and 2) above). We both reject Darwin’s random mutations. You refuse to consider Shapiro’s intelligent cells.

DAVID: Yep! Free living bacteria are not the same as multicellular cells!!! Evolution evolved away from that ability.

dhw: You have agreed that multicellular cells seem to act intelligently. How do you know they don’t?

DAVID: The automaticity of cellular biochemistry is obvious.

Many actions are automatic, but you leave out those that precede and direct the automatic ones:
Shapiro: “Living cells and organisms are cognitive (sentient) entities that act and
interact purposefully to ensure survival, growth and proliferation. They possess sensory,
communication, information-processing and decision-making capabilities.” No need for me to quote the rest of his list, since you quoted it all in your book The Atheist Delusion. His description is supported by numerous scientists in the field – both past and present.

How B-cells recognize antigens

DAVID: The B cell membrane will decode the foreign molecule which is attached to it and either recognize it is an antigen it knows from its library, or it will activate a new antibody all automatically.

All these actions confirm Shapiro’s observations. But it’s still a theory, as is your “automatically”.