Return to David's theory of evolution (Evolution)

by David Turell , Sunday, October 02, 2022, 17:15 (566 days ago) @ dhw

Nature of God

dhw: So when you say your God wants and has full control, enjoys creating, is interested in his creations, probably/possibly has thought patterns and emotions like ours, and is kind, please don’t tell us these words may not mean what you and I think they mean.

DAVID: They mean exactly what they mean to us, but at the divine level there may be a difference we cannot perceive. Just a philosophic point.

dhw: If these discussions are to continue, I suggest we agree that such words as the above mean what we mean when we use them, though of course we can ask for explanations if the context makes the meaning unclear. See below.

Agreed

DAVID: God, as designer of evolution, created everything He had to create.

dhw: I suggest that he didn’t “have to” create anything. Who forced him? I suggest he created what he wanted to create, and so, if he exists, either he wanted dead ends, which means that humans can’t have been his one and only purpose, or perhaps he set out wanting to create a being with thought patterns etc. like his own, but had to experiment before hitting on the right formula.

DAVID: Again, a humanized God who wanders along not sure of where He is headed as He evolves His creations.

dhw: The “experiment” theory is that, just like your own humanized God, he knows exactly where he’s heading, but evolves (by which you mean designs) different creations in order to find the right formula for what he wants.

A proper purposeful God, as I see Him, knew exactly how to achieve His goals. I can't imagine Him producing a series of life-supporting universes until He got it right!!

dhw: Now please give us your own theoretical reason for his designing dead ends that did not lead to his one and only purpose, which you have previously ”explained” as making sense “only to God”.

See below:

DAVID: When an ecosystem has outlived its usefulness it disappears. A definition of a dead end.

dhw: Ecosystems are only “useful” to the organisms that live in them (and which are a part of them – the other part being the environment). An ecosystem disappears when conditions are such that the organisms can no longer survive. A dead end leads nowhere, which is why it is absurd to say that your God designed every dead-end ecosystem as an “absolute requirement” for us and our ecosystems.

Of course, a no-longer-needed ecosystem becomes a dead end. But it served its purpose as evolution moved on. Your complaints circle around implying a discontinuous form of evolution, I've called 'slicing and dicing' in the past.

DAVID (from “More miscellany”): For this discussion accept God produced all fossils in evolution. My theory is giant ecosystems which created dead-ends when no longer needed.

dhw: “No longer needed” for what? You keep telling us they were ALL needed to enable him to achieve his one and only purpose of designing us and our food! They obviously weren’t if they came to a dead end! But thank you so much for supporting the theory of a free-for-all, in which ecosystems “create” their own dead ends – which can only mean that the organisms of which they consist could no longer find means of survival when for some reason their living conditions underwent a change.

Explained very clearly above.