Return to David's theory of evolution PART ONE (Evolution)

by dhw, Sunday, June 04, 2023, 11:08 (328 days ago) @ David Turell

PART ONE

DAVID: No distortion in this limited area. Of course God knew evil would appear.

dhw: No distortion. Thank you. So if, as you say, he created what he wanted to create, then he not only knew “evil” would appear, but he wanted to create it. I wonder how many religious folk would accept your version of God as an inefficient designer of evolution, and a deliberate creator of “evil”.

DAVID: God did not create evil. Free-will humans create evil. Bacteria and viruses in the wrong places create evil.
And:
DAVID: God did not create evil!!! He created humans and bugs that can create evil. Vast difference.

Of course we and bacteria are the ones who commit the “evil deeds”. But it was your God who gave them the wherewithal to commit them, and who knew exactly how they would use the wherewithal he had given them. Being all-powerful, if he had not wanted them to have it, he would not have given it to them. And so your all-powerful, all-knowing God must have wanted them to have the power to commit evil. Maybe you’re right. Maybe your God is an inefficient and sadistic designer who enjoys watching the catastrophic misdeeds of his creations, and all the suffering they cause. I’m just a little surprised that you have such a view of him and that you emphatically reject any less critical alternatives.

dhw: Please tell us what you regard as his purpose for the creation of humans and every other life form that ever existed.

DAVID: He obviously wanted to create a deep-thinking organism with mentation similar to His. He might want our awareness of Him and His works. What is your God's purpose?

dhw: Why have you left out “every other life form that ever existed”, including the 99% which had no connection with us or our food? Mentation would presumably cover thought patterns and emotions, and yet the moment I propose thought patterns and emotions such as enjoyment of creation and interest in his creations as a possible God’s possible purpose for creating ALL of life through experimentation or a free-for-all, you moan that I am humanizing him. You also moan that this would entail self-interest. Why would he want us to be aware of him and his works? Might one of his emotions not entail the desire for appreciation? No self-interest?

DAVID: God creates in His own selfless way. He creates without wishes for human responses, but expects they will happen.

Please explain how he can want us to be aware but not wish for us to respond. How would he know we were aware if we did not respond?

dhw: […] please tell me what "mutually contradictory" things you have found in my alternatives.

DAVID: Your whole imaginary God is a contradiction to usual thought about who God is.

dhw: Do you really think your inefficient, sadistic version of God represents “usual thought about who God is”? Re mutual contradictions:

DAVID: Of course your not-all-knowing God would not expect evil in free-will humans He created. Part of the contradictions is a God who can create life and thinking humans with free-will and doesn't 'know' in advance the obvious result, evil humans will appear, as simple logical thinking. Your un-knowing God is basically illogical in His thinking.

dhw: I can’t follow your logic. You say of course a not all-knowing God would not expect evil, and this somehow contradicts the fact that a not all-knowing God doesn’t know in advance that evil will obviously appear! Do you really think experimenters already know all the possible side effects of their experiments? (See Part Two for examples.)There is no contradiction!

DAVID: Illogical. Free-will humans have the ability to create evil.

Agreed.

DAVID: Would your know-nothing experimenting God anticipate that?

Not “know-nothing”. He is not all-knowing. I’ve already answered you in the bold above.