Return to David's theory of evolution PARTS 1 & 2 (Evolution)

by dhw, Tuesday, January 25, 2022, 08:20 (823 days ago) @ David Turell

dhw: I have not offered an odd view of evolution here. I have questioned your odd view, which according to you, your beloved Adler never covered, since his aim was to prove the existence of God, not God’s method of fulfilling his one and only purpose by not fulfilling his one and only purpose until he’d produced countless life forms that had no connection with his one and only purpose. Please stop trying to hide behind Adler.

DAVID:I tell you what Adler covers and you say he doesn't. Read Adler to see I am correct in my interpretation. Again, accepting that God evolved humans the highly unusual human result is the way Adler proves God.

But proving God is not the point at issue!!!

DAVID: Adler accepts that God invented life and designed all of evolution. Do I seem different in what I propose?

You have told us yourself that Adler does NOT deal with your theory. Nor do your ID-ers. In any case, the point at issue is not what other people say or don't say, but the fact that you yourself can find no logical explanation for your theory that your God fulfilled his one and only purpose by not fulfilling his one and only purpose until he had designed countless life forms etc. that had no connection with his one and only purpose! I think I've bolded this before, but still you go on dodging!

SURVIVAL
dhw: Do you [or do you not] believe that the innovations which lead to speciation were designed to serve the purpose of improving organisms’ chances of survival?

DAVID: Still arguing are you? Of course adaptations by species help their survival. The gaps in the fossil record does not help the argument that stepwise adaptations lead to new species.

dhw: I deliberately left out the word “adaptations” last time, but that hasn’t stopped you from yet again dodging the question. It’s bolded, and concerns “innovations”. Please answer.

DAVID: Of course designed innovations help survival. I've admitted that many times.

So if your God designed the innovations that lead to speciation in order to “help” survival, why is it wrong to say that the purpose of the innovations that lead to speciation is to improve chances of survival?

The missing fossils argument
DAVID: You are forgetting our discussion that Darwinists and IDers both use the same maths to calculate mutation rates and times. None of them would agree with your off hand dismissal of 410,000 years. Compared to 3.8 billions of years 410,000 is 0.0011 % of the time for more complexity to appear than ever seen before. Why didn't your bright cells do it before then.???

dhw: I’m not disputing the maths. I’m disputing the claim that 410,000 years is not long enough for intelligent cells to produce new species in response to new conditions. Your question raises the obvious question why, if your all-powerful God’s "one and only goal" was to design humans and their food, he didn’t “do it before then??? ]

Not answered.

DAVID: The maths dispute your point!!

They obviously don’t “dispute” my point that 410,000 years is enough for thousands of generations of intelligent organisms to produce rapid evolution, as proposed by Mirouze: : “ TEs are likely major drivers of rapid evolution—changes measured in terms of generations rather than millennia.” The fact that you disagree does not mean he is wrong and you are right.

DAVID: And you want direct creation which didn't happen. So? I've concluded God must have wanted to evolve us because the history God created shows exactly that.

I don’t “want” anything. The history shows that your God, if he exists, caused the evolution of countless life forms that had no connection with humans, and if we assume that he did what he wanted, then clearly he did not ONLY want humans and their food but also wanted the great higgledy-piggledy bush.

DAVID: Your theist hat is interesting. God's cells are as brilliant as He is. Hopefully they know what God's wishes are.

dhw: No they aren’t as brilliant as he is, if he exists, and I would not expect them even to dream of your God's existence. Let us assume that he is all-powerful and all-knowing. Have you noticed that all life forms try to survive, and yet all individuals die, and species also die, and there are terrible diseases that we and other species fail to cure? Intelligent though they may be, cells can never figure out how to be eternal and immortal, like your God. So I would suggest that since he is all-powerful and all-knowing, he actually wanted them to be the way they are. Intelligent enough to design different ways of surviving for a limited time (hence the astonishing variety of life forms, natural wonders etc.), but nowhere near as brilliant as he is. Even our own brilliant cells can't figure out the major mysteries of life. Only he can - if he exists.

DAVID: So you have concluded all living forms must die. Long ago I noted death is built in.

You claimed that my theory made cells as brilliant as your God. I have tried to demonstrate that if your God exists, he deliberately made them considerably less brilliant than himself, and my conclusion – to put it frankly – is that your point was ridiculous.