Return to David's theory of evolution (Evolution)

by David Turell , Tuesday, March 07, 2023, 16:57 (415 days ago) @ dhw

DAVID: Failure to survive at a 99.9% rate is historical fact. I believe God used evolution to create His desired endpoint, us.

dhw: Of course it’s historical fact, and that is why it is so absurd to argue that your all-powerful God deliberately designed every single life form in order to design us and our food, although 99% of the life forms he designed were irrelevant to us and our food!

The 99.9% were part of the necessary mechanics of living evolution. So in your view we simply go from bacteria to us without loss of life? 99.9% were not irrelevant, they formed the process of evolution.

dhw: You have just agreed that yours makes mistakes, his designs are faulty etc. That = a blunderer. Mine does not make mistakes but creates successes. Apparently that turns him into a simple human being.

DAVID: Does your God speciate by Himself?

dhw: In my first two alternatives, yes. But he does not make mistakes and his experiments are not failures. In my third, he leaves it to the cells themselves. Now please stop dodging, and tell me why your God’s mistakes do not make him a blunderer, and why my God’s faultless creation of what he wants to create makes him a simple human being.

God knew when He used an evolutionary creation method, there would be a 99.9 % loss rate. No mistakes, no blundering. Your God uses free-for-all for entertainment and experiments in a directionless manner. Purely human.

dhw: […]. Extremophiles prove that he can REACT to any conditions. But if he does not control conditions, he needs luck to provide those that will enable him to fulfil his only purpose.

DAVID: Please accept God can design for all conditions.

dhw: I have just accepted that. Now please accept that if your God does not control conditions, he is limited to designing new species which can cope with those conditions, even though they have no connection with his one and only purpose, which you say is us and our food.

History proves we arrived despite all your artful distortions. God was never limited by environment since the Earth's temperature has always been in a narrow life-supporting range since snowball Earth disappeared.

DAVID: [..] Your cry of "luck" is a ghost of any logic. Life under God's design evolved steadily.

dhw: It is you who keep harping on about Raup’s theory that survival is a matter of luck, and it is you who claim that God REACTS to conditions he cannot control (as above), thereby needing luck to provide the conditions which will enable him to design us and our food. I don’t know about life evolving steadily. It seems to have evolved in bursts, following long periods of stasis (“punctuated equilibrium”).

Answered above. Raup's point was all organism's adaptability were limited. Organism's bad luck, not God's.

The Cambrian

DAVID: Cambrian is phenotypic change, not biochemical change. All based on Edicaran biochemistry.

dhw: All life is based on biochemistry. Humans are distinct species, and you claim that your God created our ancestors without predecessors, i.e. our ancestors did not descend from previous species. For you the creation of species de novo is crucial evidence for God’s very existence and for your constant attacks on Darwin, but of course it makes nonsense of your theory that we (plus food) were your all-powerful God’s purpose from the very beginning, and so he had to create countless life forms that had nothing to do with us (plus food).

You just can't help yourself. In my belief God chose to evolve us creating 'countless lifeforms' on the way, which surprise, created our food supply.

DAVID: Darwin's evolution is the same, a 99.9% failure to survive rate, a different way to think about his theory.

dhw: We all accept that 99% of species became extinct. How does that change the fact that all adaptations and innovations are geared to the struggle for survival? Even your God has to ensure that his new designs will survive in the new conditions.

Thank you. 99% is required.

Bipedalism

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DAVID: The bipedal body is not fit to stay in trees. They were forced by their new design to be terrestrial.

dhw: So one morning a group of anthropoids woke up to find themselves with straightened backs and legs, which forced them out of the trees and onto the ground. But even then your God knew he’d have to keep popping in to operate on hominins and hominids and homos till he could get what he wanted (us plus food), though he needn’t have bothered with any of them because he could have created us de novo if he’d wanted to. I'm surprised that you think even God can understand your theories.

God and I know He speciates. You don't know how to think about God as I do.