Return to David's theory of evolution PARTS 1 & 2 (Evolution)

by dhw, Sunday, March 20, 2022, 11:52 (767 days ago) @ David Turell

dhw: […] I am the one who upholds the theory of continuity, which means that all the different branches of life’s bush – including all those that had no connection with humans plus food – are descended from bacteria.

DAVID: The gaps are in God's control. […] The gap is phenotypical not biochemical which is continuous!

Of course all life is biochemical! But your focus is on the gaps between species! And so you tell us that there is a continuous line of species from bacteria to humans, and yet humans are descended from species that have no precursors. You can’t have it both ways.

dhw: Please explain why our common ground humanization theory that God enjoys creating and is interested in his creations cannot possibly mean that his purpose for creating life might have been to create things that he would find interesting.

DAVID: A purely human purpose! He doesn't need to create for His enjoyment.

It doesn’t have to be “need”. You can enjoy something without being needy! We both agree that if God exists, he must have had a purpose in creating life. You say it was to create humans and their food. He must have had a purpose for creating humans. You guess that he might have wanted us to admire his works and to have a relationship with him. Perfectly logical, and human. You also guess (and once were sure) that he enjoys creation and is interested in his creations. Perfectly logical, and human (why would he create if he didn’t enjoy it and wasn’t interested in it?). You agree that we may mimic him and we may share some of his thought patterns and emotions and logic. You could hardly present a stronger case against your own complaint against “humanization” when it comes to the discussion of God’s possible purpose in creating life.

DAVID: Please not 'only purpose', as that is your defensive distortion of my thoughts. Humans are the purposeful endpoint of His creative evolution

dhw: “Goal” and “purpose” have now turned into “purposeful endpoint”! We may be the last and the most dominant species, but that does not mean every life form and food was “preparation for us” and “part of the goal of evolving [= designing] humans” plus food. Two days ago, you wrote: “I don’t pretend with my firmly established beliefs. All of evolution, designed by God, prepared for us.” [...] Please stop dodging.[...]

DAVID: The dodge is yours. Humans are God's endpoint/ending purpose through God's designed evolution. You've said He should have logically (your human logic) used direct creation. He didn't because He doesn't think like you or your supposed god does. At every level from BB on He evolves.

I am not denying that at every level life has evolved! You are still saying humans were your God’s purpose (now called “ending purpose”), so do you withdraw the bolded comments above or not? Please answer. If you stand by them, it makes no sense to have him specially designing all the species and foods that had no connection with humans plus food. Therefore either he did NOT design every level, or his purpose was NOT confined to achieving just one level plus food. And I propose that God might well think logically like some of us, and not illogically like you!

Transferred from “Cellular intelligence”:

dhw: Please tell us why you think your God wanted a constant war of survival between his creations.

DAVID: You still haven't resolved the issue of everyone has to eat, and plants have to absorb nutrients. The life system we have requires constant homeostasis, which means a constant energy requirement to support it. What kind of non-war life do you imagine?

dhw: There is no issue: all organisms have to eat. There is no reason at all to assume that your God could not have designed a Garden of Eden, with all life forms – including humans - as vegetarians, living and cooperating in peace with one another. Let us not forget that your God is all-knowing and all-powerful. So once more, why do you think he chose to create life as “a constant war to survive by eating"?

DAVID: In your Eden all eat plants. We know plants don't like it from current research. You ask why can't we have life without war. Your proposal is a war on plants!! Your whole complaint against God's invention is illogical and spurious.

You asked what kind of non-war life I imagined, and I have answered. Apart from the few carnivorous species, plants draw their nutrients from inanimate food. They may struggle to survive, but they do not hunt and kill, and I doubt if you would describe a herd of cows munching grass as part of a constant war to survive by eating. According to you, your God specially designed all species, and so he specially designed a constant war. Once more, please tell us why you think he chose to do so.