Return to David's theory of evolution PARTS 1 & 2 (Evolution)

by dhw, Monday, January 10, 2022, 15:27 (10 days ago) @ David Turell


DAVID: Totally confused. The complexification mechanism supplied in advance accommodates all the new uses.

dhw: Three cheers. We need not take this discussion any further. The brain was your chosen example to illustrate how your God created new forms, organs, organisms in advance of any need for them. My favourite example was that of him changing pre-whale legs to flippers before the animals entered the water, but you chose the brain. At last, however, we now have your God providing the MECHANISM for change in advance of the changes. Precisely. With the brain, it's the MECHANISM initially for expansion and for complexification, but then almost entirely for complexification, and in both cases, the mechanism responds to the new requirements. This applies to the whole of evolution. My theistic proposal is that your God provided the MECHANISM for all evolutionary change, and this mechanism (the flexible and intelligent cell) brings about all the changes IN RESPONSE to new conditions and not in ANTICIPATION of them....He supplied the initial MECHANISM which would accommodate all uses. Agreement at last!

DAVID: No cheers at all. Complexification is a preparation to handle future use, supplied in the newly enlarged brain by God, long before all the current brain uses were needed or required.

What do you mean by “complexificaton is a preparation”? Complexification is the process, and each complexification is a new product of the process, which takes place in RESPONSE to new requirements.. We have agreed that the ABILITY to complexify must have been present in earlier brains as well, and of course the ability – or what you earlier called the mechanism – was present before it was called upon to meet new requirements.

DAVID: The bold fits no known facts. Our use of complexification shrunk the brain 150 cc. Intelligent cells are hyperbolic opinions of some folks, not all. Ask ID. We each follow our own champions, according to our individual preferences, but all of whom have equal education but differing opinions. In other words your guys are no better than my guys.

Why are you disagreeing with yourself? You explicitly said it was the MECHANISM for complexification that was supplied in advance, and I agreed. Now you are flapping around trying to do what? Prove that it wasn’t the mechanism?

You tried to use the brain as an example of how your God designed new organs and organisms in anticipation of the conditions that required or allowed them. The article on “Oxygen” that we discussed under “More miscellany” is another instance in which you appear to agree that the change in conditions comes first, but then you try to wriggle out of it.

dhw; […] environmental changes either require or allow changes in life forms. […]

DAVID: You cannot design an organism dependent on oxygen if it isn’t present.

We agree. But today you write:

DAVID: New conditions allow new changes to happen. God dsigns in advance for them.

You say cannot design an organism dependent on new conditions (oxygen) if the new conditions oxygen) aren’t already present, so what is it that God designs in advance? Did oxygen-breathing animals appear before there was oxygen? Once more, what exists in advance can only be the MECHANISM which makes new changes when conditions require or allow them – not in advance of the change in conditions.

PART TWO simply repeats points already dealt with under “Cellular Intelligence” concerning ecosystems, and “slicing and dicing”, as attempts to dodge the question of why your God would design countless life forms that had no connection with humans plus food, if his one and only purpose was to design humans plus food.

There is only one new question:

DAVID: Why are you so unhappy God wanted us?

I am not in the least unhappy at the idea. My experimentation theories both allow for him “wanting us”, and even the free-for-all allows him to dabble if he feels like it. I am only unhappy with two of your theories: your all-powerful God creating a system with errors he did not want and could not correct, and your all-powerful God specially designing countless life forms that had no connection with humans plus food, although his one and only goal was to design humans plus food.

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