Return to David's theory of evolution (Evolution)

by dhw, Tuesday, January 16, 2024, 11:01 (310 days ago) @ David Turell

DAVID: I don't need reasons for God's actions. God is all knowing so therefore His reasons are correct.

Of course. if he exists, his reasons must be his reasons, and his methods must be his methods. But if you don’t know the reasons for your God’s actions in creating life, why do you insist that you do know the reason: to create us and our food? And why do you insist that you even know his method: to design 99.9 out of 100 species that have no connection with his reason for creating life? Your starting point is always your assumption that you know his reason/motive/purpose and you know his method of fulfilling his one and only desire! You don’t. Either one or both of your theories might be wrong, but your mind is closed to any alternative.

DAVID: I make a strong attempt not to humanize my God.

dhw: Your strong attempt included your certainty that he enjoys creating and is interested in his creations, and your guesses that his reasons for creating humans were to be worshipped, recognized, and perhaps to form a relationship. Why are these strong attempts of yours less human and less self-serving than my suggestion that perhaps one of them (enjoyment and interest) might be his reason for creating life? (I have repeatedly bolded this question and asked you to answer it, and your answer now is to leave it out altogether.)

DAVID: My constant answer is God does not create for self-serving purposes.

So although all your guesses, as listed above, are clearly self-serving, your strong answer is that all your guesses are wrong, and you blame me if I propose that one of your guesses might be right.

99.9& versus 0.1%

DAVID: ecosystems support all life on Earth. Everything living is here for a purpose. Those who do not understand that viewpoint have a confused view as to why species exist.

dhw: […] Of course every ecosystem supports the life of those organisms that live in it, and ecosystems come and go as conditions change. What is the purpose of everything living? The only purpose that emerges from all these articles is survival, but 99.9% of all the species that have ever lived have eventually failed to survive, and every ecosystem has changed accordingly. Apart from the purpose of survival, please tell us the purpose for which the 99.9% of extinct species existed and for which the current 0.1% exist.

DAVID: A production of humans to control the Earth.

But as you have now agreed, 99.9% of past species had no connection with humans or our food. They all lived in their respective ecosystems, and they and their ecosystems died out. So what do you think was their purpose? And while we're at it, what might be his purpose for giving humans control of the Earth?

Theodicy

dhw: I have no problem with faith so long as it doesn’t turn into prejudice.

DAVID: Your fixed humanizing of God is also the result of your prejudices.

dhw: I don’t even know if God exists, let alone what attributes he may have. I have offered you ALTERNATIVE theistic theories to explain the higgledy-piggledy history of life on Earth. Nothing fixed. But as you explained earlier, you start with what you wish to believe, and even though you can’t find a single reason to support your combined theories, you stick to them. That is a pretty good description of prejudice.

DAVID: When I started as an agnostic, so where is the prejudice? That I formed opinions as I read material new to me, shows you an open mind. How closed is yours?

Prejudice always has a root in the past. You form an opinion, and from then on you stick to it even if it doesn’t make sense. For some reason, you became convinced at some time in the past that your God’s only possible purpose was to create humans plus food. You also became convinced that your God specially designed every species. And now, in the present, even though you cannot find a single reason why your God should have designed 99/9 out of 100 species that had no connection with the only purpose you are prepared to believe in, your opinion remains fixed. You have closed your mind. As for me, I can’t decide whether God exists or not. If he does, I consider different hypotheses about his possible purposes, nature and methods. I find some more convincing than others (and try to explain why), but none are convincing enough for me to form a firm belief. Somewhere along the line, I am wrong, but I do not see my personal indecisiveness as prejudice.