Return to David's theory of evolution PARTS 1 & 2 (Evolution)

by dhw, Thursday, March 24, 2022, 11:44 (973 days ago) @ David Turell

DAVID: They [David’s theories] make no sense to you, not me. Don't put your thoughts into my arena? Distortion of fact of a distortion of comprehension of a simple fact?

dhw: You have admitted that you can’t explain the above, have told me to ask God for an explanation, and have informed us that “God makes sense only to Himself. He has reasons we may not understand.”

DAVID: Exactly!!! We cannot know why God thought to do anything. We can assume and guess from His demonstrated works logically. But still the basis will depend upon how one views God's personality which brings us to His possible personal desires for himself. We differ widely.

You claimed above that your theory of evolution made sense to you. And yet you cannot explain it, and it only makes sense to God. So how can it make sense to you?

DAVID: My point is evolution is evolving biochemistry and also phenotypical changes. Two separate parts of evolution. Can you recognize that?

dhw: I can indeed recognize that, but I’m wondering why suddenly you’ve forgotten the word “species”. Can you recognize that brontosauruses and humans belong to different species, and that according to you, the species from which we have descended appeared without precursors during the Cambrian, which can only mean there was no direct line from bacteria to us?

DAVID: 'Species' is the phenotypical aspect of evolution, not the biochemical. Evolution is both.

All life is biochemical, and all species develop from phenotypical changes. That does not mean all extinct phenotypical changes were “part of the goal of evolving humans” plus food. If you claim that certain species appeared without any precursors, that means there was no direct line between them and any preceding species, so if humans were descended from them, it cannot be said that all pre-Cambrian species were preparation for, and part of the goal of evolving humans and their food. Your answer is that only God can explain these theories. I suggest that maybe your theories have one or more flaws in them.

DAVID: Did you look at theistic discussion of how to theists think about God? I did so before entering into a study of my agnosticism as necessary preparation for a decision.

I was brought up as a Jew, and learned how Jews think about God. I was brought up in a largely Christian society, and learned how Christians think about God. I looked into alternatives, such as Islam and Hinduism (and was surprised to find that Buddhism was not necessarily theistic). And I have a very good friend, a panentheist, who has studied book after book telling him how to think about God, and leaving him with theories which make no sense even to him. Now shall we get back to discussing the theological mess that has emerged from all these books that have told you how to think about God?

Bacteria help ground squirrels hibernate
[…]
DAVID: Be realistic. All bacteria have fought with each other since they began. Do you live in a pipedream?

dhw: You asked me to “conceive of a different peaceful form of life”. I have done so, and all you can do is tell me there’s been war since bacteria began. I know. And so I asked you why your God would have chosen to create war rather than cooperative peace, as in the hibernation example. Please answer.

DAVID: I have answered. I have no idea if peaceful bacteria are possible. God chose what was needed. Your problem as usual.

“Needed” for what? We both agree that your God must have had a purpose in creating life, so what do you think was his purpose in choosing war instead of peace?

BLOOD BRAIN BARRIER CONTROLS (transferred from “cellular intelligence”)

dhw: You may not have noticed, but we are in the midst of a pandemic caused by a virus. Millions of people have died or been permanently damaged, and your God’s instructions have apparently not yet come into play.

DAVID: You fall hook life and sinker for the hype media uses to frighten you. In 1919 the US lost 600,000 with 110,000,000 population. At 330,000,000 now we have lost just over 600,000. So do the math. Don't you see the improvement the time around? Of course not, only the Garden of Eden satisfies you , were no blood is shed.

dhw: Praise the Lord! His invention has only killed 6+ million people, which as a proportion of the world’s population is probably an improvement over his previous pandemics. But as usual, you have missed the point, which is why your God chose to design war rather than peace.

DAVID: You answer it, I can't. We battled over theodicy before.

You have pooh-poohed the worldwide tragedy of Covid-19 as media hype, defended your theory that God deliberately designed “bad” bacteria and viruses, want us to focus on all the goodies and, despite your vast knowledge of books that tell you how to think for yourself about God, you can’t answer a straight question. I have offered you a possible answer, but you’ve forgotten it or you simply want to shut it out because you don’t like it. No point in going through the details, as three words will bring it all back to you: “free-for-all”.